D&D 5E Playing the Game vs. Reading the Rules of the Game

[JamesonCourage]

Totally in agreement with @Ahnehnois. I've played enough games to know what I generally like and dislike; I can judge mechanics based on what I like or dislike just by reading them (though I admit there are rare exceptions).

The same with food; I don't like tomatoes or onions, so saying "but you might like this salsa, and you can't know until you try it" just won't convince me. Also, I knew I didn't like those foods before I ever tasted them. Maybe it was the smell, maybe it was instinct, or maybe I'm an oracle like that; I don't really know how I knew I wouldn't like them. But, regardless, I knew I wouldn't before I ever tried them, and I was right. And that's exactly how it goes with most food, too (though I admit there are rare exceptions).

In my experience, I don't need to experience something in order to judge it the huge majority of the time; observation and analysis is enough for me. I understand that some people need to experience things, but it's just not necessary for me. Why this is hard to grasp is a little hard for me to understand, but hey, that's people (and they believe much odder things than this).

The best case scenario for 5e and me is that one (or maybe, maybe, two) of its rules that I dislike ends up being that rare exception I think is better than I thought it'd be (being a rare exception). That won't make the rest of them better, however. Experience in gaming has given me the ability to judge rules in gaming. This whole "but you can't know until you try it" is just nonsense in so much of life for me, and is with RPG mechanics to a large extent now.

I know myself well enough to know most of what I like in RPGs based on years of experience. I can then spend time observing, digesting, and analyzing new mechanics, match them up with what I think they'll do for me, and come to a conclusion. The fact that other people can't accept that it's possible isn't going to deter me from using this ability. Sorry. As always, play what you like

 

[Warbringer]

I'm suggesting that if you have good reason to believe you won't like something, "giving it a try" is not necessarily worthwhile.

OK, didn't see that as a take away in your comment at all.

To rephrase, yes "If you read and don't like, you're less likely to try", which is a shame, because you can't tell how it will play out, especially in a social game where the outcome of fun actually overrides the rules (IMHO)

 

[bogmad]

I wonder if there's a direct correlation between picky eaters and those who are likely for 5e?
Can we get some rigorous poll data for that?

 

[Jacob Marley]

To rephrase, yes "If you read and don't like, you're less likely to try", which is a shame, because you can't tell how it will play out, especially in a social game where the outcome of fun actually overrides the rules (IMHO)

Sure, if I don't play it I won't know how it plays out. That is true of every game on the market! I am required to play each and every game before saying "I'm not interested?"? Am I not allowed to say "X is like Y, and I don't enjoy Y."?

Also, if "the outcome of fun actually overrides the rules," then why do we need D&DNext?

 

[Warbringer]

It's a predominantly D&D forum, in the D&D and Pathfinder topic, in a 5e thread, and we get a new product launch every 4 years or so, and its free right now, so, yeah, i expect you to play it ...

Personally, I'm not convinced "we", established players need a new rule set, but I do t think this new edition is designed for us, its for the 25+ MM lapsed players out there ripe to return to D&D where the rules aren't a barrier to consideration ... And yes, currently I think they are.

 

[Ahnehnois]

In general, I would think that "games that play well" is a subset of "games that read well", not the other way around.

 

[Greg K]

To rephrase, yes "If you read and don't like, you're less likely to try", which is a shame, because you can't tell how it will play out, especially in a social game where the outcome of fun actually overrides the rules (IMHO)

That is not my experience at all. While a bad group will make a bad experience out of a good game system (as defined by my tastes), for myself, the opposite does not hold true. A good group will not override my dislike for a game's mechanics and concepts unless I or the person running the game have house ruled the offending items (and, if we are bringing in house rules, we are not talking about the rules as written). So, assuming that we are sticking to discussing the rules as written, no matter how good the group might be, the mechanics or concepts that I dislike are going to be there like an itch needing to be scratched while those I strongly dislike will be grating on my nerves like fingernails across a blackboard.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

In general, I would think that "games that play well" is a subset of "games that read well", not the other way around.

In this I must disagree. In fact, few games, good or bad, read well. It requires experience with very similar games to get any sense of how a game plays by reading the rules.

Now, for my level of experience, D&D Next does play roughly how I expect it to from reading the rules. But I still needed to play it to verify my thoughts.

 

[Mistwell]

Yes. Not infrequently a wise decision. I owe my livelihood in no small part to my unwillingness to partake in some of the unhealthy eating practices that were pushed on me (and on pretty much everyone in Western culture) in my youth. Children can be picky, but their natural instincts are to eat nutritional things and avoid toxic things, which is good.

I have some bad news for you - you must have had an unusual childhood. Kids love ice cream, cookies, chips, and pretty much anything with lots of sugar, salt, and/or no nutritional value at all. Do you have kids? ANY parent will attest to this.

True, but so is trying the right things. It's not like it's a choice between running 5e and sitting on my hands waiting for life to happen! In context, it's a choice between trying 5e and trying some other things. Life is too short to waste it on mediocrity.

You're engaging in this debate with me, for hours now. Please, we both know we have the time to add one more game in there. Who are you trying to kid, Mr. "Kids Instinctively Eat Nutritional Food and Reject Junk Food"?

I will, over the next two weeks, work on a manuscript, train in scientific reviewing techniques, tutor science students, attend professional meetings, supervise contractors working on my building, welcome in new tenants, escort out old tenants, listen to a half dozen or more new music albums,tour a new city, write a motherload of NPCs for my next game, attend at least two lectures in medicine and ethics, attend and volunteer at a major weeklong medical conference, hike along the river, work out, read a book, cook something original, buy as much ice cream as possible from my soon-to-be closed neighborhood spot, write some posts on ENWorld, gather professional recommendations for medical school, and, hopefully, run the most horrific game of CoC I have ever done.

In other words you're an unemployed would-be student doing some tutoring on the side and apartment managing to get by, with a lot of time on his hands looking to make it seem like he's working really hard so he doesn't feel guilty about not working. I gotcha, and I've been there (around 1992 for me). But, you have plenty of time to participate in a single game of 5e. Face it, you just don't want to. That's OK, but cut the excuses then and just say that. There was no need for, as the law books say, "all that puffery".

I can guarantee I won't be trying 5e. I don't have time for a half-baked rpg that doesn't really appeal to me. Somehow I think my time will be better spent elsewhere. I doubt the following two weeks will be all that much different.

OK, that's too bad. I will miss your participation in the 5e threads. And I mean that genuinely.

 

[Ahnehnois]

In other words you're an unemployed would-be student doing some tutoring on the side to get by with a lot of time on his hands looking to make it seem like he's working really hard so he doesn't feel guilty about not working. I gotcha, and I've been there (around 1992 for me). But, you have plenty of time to participate in a single game of 5e. Face it, you just don't want to. That's OK, but cut the excuses then and just say that.

I have two paid jobs and a third unpaid, thank you very much, and a busy social calendar. And a thousand things I'd rather be doing than pilot testing a new version of D&D that's anything less than spectacular. No, I don't have time, and yes, typing posts intermittently while doing work for pay is easier than playing an rpg sessions.

More to the point, even when I was in a situation that actually did meet that description, I still wouldn't have chosen to try 5e over playing my regular game. Would I try something new and interesting? Maybe. But 5e didn't interest me when I read it.

OK, that's too bad. I will miss your participation in the 5e threads.

Not much to be done about that.