Becoming a hero

[Bullgrit]

Besides, superhero films are already replete with pretty sucky messages - in most of them, the normal person can't be a hero; you either have to inherit enormous wealth (Batman, Iron Man), be inherently superior (Superman), or be the recipient of some freak lucky accident (Spiderman, the Hulk) in order to have a chance. So, what's one more sucky message in all of that?

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?350048-HULK-Strength-and-Power#ixzz2nkLsdZvR

I didn't want to hijack that other thread, but this brings up a good topic for discussion.

Looking at just superhero films/movies, (not the books they may have been based on), because films/movies are how most non-geeks know of superheroes:

What are the examples of people who were heroes before they got powers? Are there any? Do the movies show that one can only be heroic after given power?

How about Captain America? He was given power *because* he was a heroic person -- as Dr. Erskine said, "a good man."

Bullgrit

 

[delericho]

What are the examples of people who were heroes before they got powers? Are there any?

There are a couple of heroes who simply don't have any powers or any huge resources - Kick Ass, perhaps, or the Punisher. And there are a few who lose their powers and carry on being a hero, though this is invariably a temporary thing.

Do the movies show that one can only be heroic after given power?

It's perhaps worth noting that my issue with movies wasn't just about gaining superpowers, as such - characters such as Batman and Iron Man don't have any true superpowers. But, even so, you have to be born 'special' to become Batman or Iron Man - in both cases they inherited superhuman genius and ungodly amounts of money.

How about Captain America? He was given power *because* he was a heroic person -- as Dr. Erskine said, "a good man."

Unfortunately, the Captain suffers from the same 'specialness' criterion - he can only do what he does because he was the recipient of that one-off medical experiment. Take that away and he's still "a good man"... but he's not the subject of a movie.

I'm not sure that's inherently a problem since, after all, these are superhero movies, so it rather comes with the territory. However, in terms of the 'message', it's perhaps not so great to keep being told "you can only be a hero if you're special" - it's a little disturbing that Syndrome (from "The Incredibles") is probably right.

Or perhaps I've just been reading one too many Cracked articles.

 

[Umbran]

I think you may be missing the true nature of superheroes. They're the modern version of mythology.

In a well-written superhero story, the powers (or extreme wealth) are there to raise the stakes above those encountered by mere mortals, and we then examine human nature in that elevated situation. Think back to the Greco-Roman or Norse gods - they are super-powered, but still *people*, with all the foibles attending - they are petty, vengeful, loving, merciful, and all that. Powers or not, the stories about them are still intended to say something about *people*.

The Spider Man and Iron Man movies sit as excellent examples of the point - yes, they have powers, but the stories are driven by the Peter Parker and Tony Stark. In their first movies, both are driven to be heroes by learning the same basic message - with great power comes great responsibility. Parker learns it through the death of Uncle Ben. Stark learns it by seeing the conflicts his business supports first hand.

This is all intentional, and okay. This is a way people have told stories of moral character for thousands of years. Viewers get it - the fact that the heroes and villains are ridiculously powerful allows us to not get hung up on the details, while keeping them engaged in the spectacle.

 

[billd91]

I'm not sure it's all that sucky a message, really. Superheroes do things normal people can't do. It's escapism on that level.

When looking for messages and lessons - there are 2 things I'd look for:

1) normal people giving the big heroes the little bits of help they need like with the New Yorkers on the bridge in the first Spider Man. I'd like to see more of that sort of thing - people responding to the heroes, helping with information, or otherwise enabling the heroes to do their jobs - perhaps at some risk, but not the same kinds of mind blowing risks the superheroes take on.

2) the superheroes standing up for principles that their powers can't actually affect (the whole racism parallel in the X-Men comics, gay rights parallel in the movies) that other people can also stand up for.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

I didn't want to hijack that other thread, but this brings up a good topic for discussion.

Looking at just superhero films/movies, (not the books they may have been based on), because films/movies are how most non-geeks know of superheroes:

What are the examples of people who were heroes before they got powers? Are there any? Do the movies show that one can only be heroic after given power?

How about Captain America? He was given power *because* he was a heroic person -- as Dr. Erskine said, "a good man."

Bullgrit

The Thor movie was sorta in line with this. He had powers an' stuff but he misused them and caused some fairly serious problems. He didn't even understand what he did wrong. So daddy takes his T-Bird away, exiles him to Earth and puts in place a redemptive mechanism: If sonny boy learns his lesson and becomes what he thought he was then he earns back his powahs. Really, the message there wasn't all that bad. dood thinks violence solves everything cuz he's an indestructible god, daddy punks him and he actually learns that you need to think before you smash.

So yeah, it doesn't exactly fit what you're looking for but I still think it applies.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The Silver Surfer, sorta...he sacrificed his happiness in order that his planet might live. In return, he was given great power and a TERRIBLE job.

 

[Ahnehnois]

It's a tad outside of the big comic book/movie superhero world, but in the 4400, people acquired superpowers, often by choice, and sometimes people were heroic first, and super later. I bet there are some X-Men characters that this could be true of as well, but I don't know that mythology.

But yes, I agree that the superhero genre is generally kind of elitist.

 

[delericho]

I think you may be missing the true nature of superheroes. They're the modern version of mythology.

This is a very good point. Sorry, I can't XP you again at this time.

 

[Hand of Evil]

You got to go back to the Pulp Days, Yes, this is more book related but did carry over in film. Tarzan just by being raised by apes but yet noble of heart, same with John Carter, heroic in war and the west, that carried over to Mars.

 

[sabrinathecat]

One of the superman cartoons had a recurring detective running around in a world of freaks, aliens, super-tech, and just bizzare stuff, but he was still coping. Then he pissed of Darksied and got killed. He didn't get powers, but was more of a hero in that story than Superman, who was chained up and beaten.

Arguably, the Green Lantern in Justice League cartoon was a hero (marine) before he got his ring.

In the Lionsgate anime movie, Doctor Strange was a jerk, but also a brilliant surgeon, saving lives on a daily basis.