D&D 3E/3.5 problem spells in 3.5
Ahnehnois
First Post
Glitterdust jumps out as being stupidly powerful. The more open-ended polymorph spells are problematic not so much for balance reasons but because of the sheer headaches involved. Resurrections can cause headaches by cheapening death. Some of the gratuitously SR-ignoring spells that deal energy damage are just stupid.
Greenfield
Adventurer
Fabricate is a problem. Its very existence is a monkey wrench in an already shaky game economy, and when PCs get it it can be easily abused to accumulate wealth of game-breaking proportions.
Detect Magic, as written, is a problem. It's also Detect Illusion, Detect Invisibility, and frequently Detect Enemy and Detect Trap. I'd like to limit it to the ability to sense magical effects on things in sight, but that's not how it's written.
Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, Shape Change, and to a lesser extend Alter Self and a Druid's Wild Shape have tremendous potential, power that may well exceed their levels.
Gate has game-breaking potential: The ability to summon one or more Solars and/or Titans into a battle is a neat effect for a climactic battle. Not so neat when you begin seeing them all the time.
The Sand Storm spell, and to a lesser extend Control Winds, can be used as Slay Army or Slay City. Each contains the quite reasonable potential to create an F5 hurricane or tornado a quarter mile across, and just walk it through a city or armed force, leveling everything in your path. You can direct it to circle you constantly as you move, making it practically impossible for any opponent to stand within that quarter mile of you. Now, the spell does have a Save (Fortitude negates), but people in the area need to make that Save every round they're exposed to the wind and, as written, they're actually incapable of getting out of the stronger winds.
Stepping away from actual spells, the Diplomacy and Intimidate rules need serious work. They're not written as opposed checks, meaning that a well designed "Diplomancer" could theoretically talk a Balrog into joining a group of good heroes. To emphasize the ridiculous power of this, it's as easy to talk the Big Bad of any scene into being a fan and supporter as it is to do the same to the village idiot. I mention Intimidate because, aside from the duration of the effect, it uses the exact same rules and target numbers. One dice roll and the Big Bad is your best friend.
Detect Magic, as written, is a problem. It's also Detect Illusion, Detect Invisibility, and frequently Detect Enemy and Detect Trap. I'd like to limit it to the ability to sense magical effects on things in sight, but that's not how it's written.
Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, Shape Change, and to a lesser extend Alter Self and a Druid's Wild Shape have tremendous potential, power that may well exceed their levels.
Gate has game-breaking potential: The ability to summon one or more Solars and/or Titans into a battle is a neat effect for a climactic battle. Not so neat when you begin seeing them all the time.
The Sand Storm spell, and to a lesser extend Control Winds, can be used as Slay Army or Slay City. Each contains the quite reasonable potential to create an F5 hurricane or tornado a quarter mile across, and just walk it through a city or armed force, leveling everything in your path. You can direct it to circle you constantly as you move, making it practically impossible for any opponent to stand within that quarter mile of you. Now, the spell does have a Save (Fortitude negates), but people in the area need to make that Save every round they're exposed to the wind and, as written, they're actually incapable of getting out of the stronger winds.
Stepping away from actual spells, the Diplomacy and Intimidate rules need serious work. They're not written as opposed checks, meaning that a well designed "Diplomancer" could theoretically talk a Balrog into joining a group of good heroes. To emphasize the ridiculous power of this, it's as easy to talk the Big Bad of any scene into being a fan and supporter as it is to do the same to the village idiot. I mention Intimidate because, aside from the duration of the effect, it uses the exact same rules and target numbers. One dice roll and the Big Bad is your best friend.
Michael Silverbane
Adventurer
The only spells that I've really seen as an issue in the games that I've run have been lesser celerity, celerity, and greater celerity.
These three spells combine elements of two things that are often seen as an issue for 3.5. The action economy, and the incredible versatility of spellcasters.
When these issues are separate, I don't have too much of a problem with them. But when put together (i.e. a wizard with one of these three spells can both break the action economy by acting out of sequence, thus instantly responding to a threat with any of his massive repertoire of prepared spells)
These three spells combine elements of two things that are often seen as an issue for 3.5. The action economy, and the incredible versatility of spellcasters.
When these issues are separate, I don't have too much of a problem with them. But when put together (i.e. a wizard with one of these three spells can both break the action economy by acting out of sequence, thus instantly responding to a threat with any of his massive repertoire of prepared spells)
LucasC
First Post
I don't know if they qualify as problems but I strongly dislike -
Those are what come to mind.
Often, but not always, those spells are restricted in campaigns I run. Players typically have access to all of them, just not on their spell list as things they can access at will.
- Detect Good/Evil/lies/etc.
- Create food/water
- Teleport (and related)
- Resurrection (and al related)
Those are what come to mind.
I dislike detect spells as they turn what could be interesting encounters into something less interesting.
I dislike create foot / water as they trivialize wilderness survival.
I dislike teleport because once PCs have regular access to flitting anywhere it becomes much harder to stay ahead of them.
I dislike resurrection and all raise dead spells as it trivializes the game.
I dislike create foot / water as they trivialize wilderness survival.
I dislike teleport because once PCs have regular access to flitting anywhere it becomes much harder to stay ahead of them.
I dislike resurrection and all raise dead spells as it trivializes the game.
Often, but not always, those spells are restricted in campaigns I run. Players typically have access to all of them, just not on their spell list as things they can access at will.
n00bdragon
First Post
Just going down the core list on the SRD these are the biggest problems that jump out at me. Keep in mind a few of them have been fixed in Pathfinder. Most of them haven't. A few have even been made more problematic. I'm going to leave out the higher level (5+) spells where casters can just treat the campaign world like a cheap hooker because those are so numerous they aren't even worth listing.
Solid Fog - Removes melee combatants from a fight for an unreasonably long time with no saving throw or spell resistance
Air Walk / Fly - Immunity to melee combatants that cannot fly
Baleful Polymorph - Fortitude based save or suck, also good at derailing plotlines
Black Tentacles - No save no spell resistance AoE grapple based lockdown that is absurdly effective on all medium or smaller creatures
Charm * - These spells are just pure BS. They make actual diplomacy a joke, ruin plotlines, double as a save or suck in combat at worst or a pseudo mind control at best, and are generally available at unfairly low levels.
Color Spray - AoE save or suck at level 1
Dimension Door - Notice the only component is verabal
Greater Invisibility / Displacement - 50% miss chance is OP
Invisibility - It's an infinite hide check for 1 min/level at level 3
Divination - Notable for smashing campaigns and thwarting DMs who try to slap casters back in line at the very low spell level of 4 and being available to wizards AND clerics
Enervation - Gets quite silly once metamagic is applied, no saving throw, VERY hard to resist
Fabricate - Mentioned above
Freedom of Movement - So many absolute immunities to so many things that wizards hate
Ghost Sound - Easily the best cantrip in the game, clever use can frequently thwart potential encounters
Glitterdust - Explained above
Grease - AoE spell that ignore spell resistance and knocks over any creature or heavily armed humanoid that can't make a DC 10 balance check with ease and forces a reflex save on everything that can make it
Hallucinatory Terrain / Illusory Wall - Do these even need explaining?
Haste - Just OP
Knock - Makes rogues useless
Mage Hand - Almost as good as Ghost Sound. Can thwart many noncombat encounters and traps.
Mirror Image - Makes wizards unreasonably difficult to attack for a level 2 spell
Planar Binding - I know it's level 5 but the ability to access an Efreeti which can be coerced (even forcefully by other spells) to grant you three full power wishes at level 9 is broken even by level 5 spell standards
Rope Trick - Utterly invisible nigh undetectable hidey hole you can rest and prepare spells within anywhere
Sleep - The class level 1 save or suck
Slow - OP
Wall of (any solid material) - Great for dividing enemies or removing them from fights
Web / Stinking Cloud - Hard to resist level 2 AoE save or sucks spells
Wind Wall - Shuts down archers
That's my short list at least. I have to be missing a few.
Solid Fog - Removes melee combatants from a fight for an unreasonably long time with no saving throw or spell resistance
Air Walk / Fly - Immunity to melee combatants that cannot fly
Baleful Polymorph - Fortitude based save or suck, also good at derailing plotlines
Black Tentacles - No save no spell resistance AoE grapple based lockdown that is absurdly effective on all medium or smaller creatures
Charm * - These spells are just pure BS. They make actual diplomacy a joke, ruin plotlines, double as a save or suck in combat at worst or a pseudo mind control at best, and are generally available at unfairly low levels.
Color Spray - AoE save or suck at level 1
Dimension Door - Notice the only component is verabal
Greater Invisibility / Displacement - 50% miss chance is OP
Invisibility - It's an infinite hide check for 1 min/level at level 3
Divination - Notable for smashing campaigns and thwarting DMs who try to slap casters back in line at the very low spell level of 4 and being available to wizards AND clerics
Enervation - Gets quite silly once metamagic is applied, no saving throw, VERY hard to resist
Fabricate - Mentioned above
Freedom of Movement - So many absolute immunities to so many things that wizards hate
Ghost Sound - Easily the best cantrip in the game, clever use can frequently thwart potential encounters
Glitterdust - Explained above
Grease - AoE spell that ignore spell resistance and knocks over any creature or heavily armed humanoid that can't make a DC 10 balance check with ease and forces a reflex save on everything that can make it
Hallucinatory Terrain / Illusory Wall - Do these even need explaining?
Haste - Just OP
Knock - Makes rogues useless
Mage Hand - Almost as good as Ghost Sound. Can thwart many noncombat encounters and traps.
Mirror Image - Makes wizards unreasonably difficult to attack for a level 2 spell
Planar Binding - I know it's level 5 but the ability to access an Efreeti which can be coerced (even forcefully by other spells) to grant you three full power wishes at level 9 is broken even by level 5 spell standards
Rope Trick - Utterly invisible nigh undetectable hidey hole you can rest and prepare spells within anywhere
Sleep - The class level 1 save or suck
Slow - OP
Wall of (any solid material) - Great for dividing enemies or removing them from fights
Web / Stinking Cloud - Hard to resist level 2 AoE save or sucks spells
Wind Wall - Shuts down archers
That's my short list at least. I have to be missing a few.
Scorpio616
First Post
Dispel Magic
Remove Curse
The existence of these spells as broad spectrum panacea are part of the foundation of non casters as second class characters. They cement the notion that it is A-O.K. to perma-bone those without access to magic. Rather than have the designers list an in game cure {with relevant skill DCs] to be sought out for each permanent infliction, instead there is just a hierarchy of spells to just throw magic at the problem.
Remove Curse
The existence of these spells as broad spectrum panacea are part of the foundation of non casters as second class characters. They cement the notion that it is A-O.K. to perma-bone those without access to magic. Rather than have the designers list an in game cure {with relevant skill DCs] to be sought out for each permanent infliction, instead there is just a hierarchy of spells to just throw magic at the problem.
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Jacob Marley
Adventurer
IMHO, most spells labeled 'problematic' should more accurately be labeled 'situationally problematic.' That is to say their valuation varies wildly depending on basic assumptions of the campaign. Knock is a perfect example. Its valuation depends on the frequency of locked/trapped doors in the campaign. Very few? The caster is probably better off picking a different spell. A lot? The party is better off finding a more efficient method. In between? The wizard outshines the rogue.
The only spells that I really have a problem with -- that I actually think are broken -- are the various early polymorph spells (and, by extension, wild shape). My main objections to them is that they are cumbersome to implement, and that they are open-ended. Later polymorph spells like Trollshape and Dragonshape were a much better implementation.
The only spells that I really have a problem with -- that I actually think are broken -- are the various early polymorph spells (and, by extension, wild shape). My main objections to them is that they are cumbersome to implement, and that they are open-ended. Later polymorph spells like Trollshape and Dragonshape were a much better implementation.
MortalPlague
Adventurer
Enervation.
BZZAP! -1d4 levels. No saving throw.
It gets ridiculous at higher levels, when you can throw a maximized enervation for a full 4 level drain. Losing 4 levels (no save!) takes almost anything out of the fight.
BZZAP! -1d4 levels. No saving throw.
It gets ridiculous at higher levels, when you can throw a maximized enervation for a full 4 level drain. Losing 4 levels (no save!) takes almost anything out of the fight.
n00bdragon
First Post
What? No split ray metamagic? Come on man. You gotta split it for only +2 levels, +1 if you take a feat. Instead of losing 4 levels for maximized you can have them lose 2d4.
