Am I correct that I can make a quadruple vampire?

[I'm A Banana]

Sure, you're using a feat to take Vampiric Heritage, but whatever, see 'You don't need every damage dealing feat to be effective, unless you like having irrational and absurd beliefs'

Plus, it is more than worth one feat for nigh infinite hilarity, in my book.

Yes, but one of the class abilities of the vampire is you become undead. So you're no longer meet the "living" portion regardless of race.

There's nothing to say that the Vampire class trumps the Vryloka racial ability in the RAW. The Vampire class ability says, "You are undead. You are unaffected by things that affect living things." The Vryloka ability says "You are both living and undead. You can be affected by whatever you want." The prerequisite for the Vampire Heritage feats is that you are a living race. The vryloka count as a living race, AND an undead race, so what class they are doesn't matter.

You can also make a human Vampire with Vampire Heritage. Or a shade vampire with Vampire Heritage. Or a gnome vampire with Vampire Heritgate. Or a warforged vampire with Vampire Heritage. Vampire Heritage doesn't care about what your class does. It cares about what your race is, and the vryloka are BOTH.

I can't offer an official statement, but as the writer of the vryloka, I'd rule that the Vampire "become undead" aspect trumps the vryloka's "living or undead" trait. That's why it is a very taboo thing among the vryloka, who made the bargain with the Red Witch *specifically* to avoid becoming undead in the first place.

Admittedly, I'm sure it's truncated, but the Compendium doesn't say much about vampirism being taboo, just that the Vrylokas wanted to live forever without becoming actual undead. So the Red Witch kind of went halfsies on their mortality.

Elvira never understood why her fellow family members were so adverse to becoming undead in the first place. Really, it seems like outmoded puritainism, the kind of thing that disallows dancing and plunging necklines because they're "provocative." Why qualify what they are with "living"? Why not embrace what they truly want to be? Sexy, powerful, undead lords of all creation?

So the moment some baron with sharp teeth took a liking to her, she discarded her racial values of "being alive" like she discarded pointless one-night-stands, disposable like the mortal commoners her family lived on.

Of course, it didn't hurt that the baron was so darkly sexy that it made her legs jello just to hear him say "Children of the Night!".

Sure, it...didn't quite take. When the bite happened, it was almost like she absorbed his vampirism, it flowed into him, and through her, and, presumably, through to the source of the vryloka -- the Red Witch. It seemed to overflow, and the sloshing negative energy came back to her in a wave, which allowed her to tap into the common origin of all vryloka abilities: the vampiric heritage.

Of course, Baron von Darkly died after the bite. Which left Elvira heartbroken, even to this day. And, more importantly, without many friends. The zombies and skeletons in von Darkly's well-appointed castle/mansion weren't good conversation, and the human chattel just seemed to scream and run away.

Now, much to her wealthy family's disappointment, she has embarked on all the adventure her ravishing good looks and poor judgement can get her into, looking for the secrets of true, endless, free life. No pacts. No deals. No witches or gods or lords or demons. Just her, and her eternal, unending youth.

Well, and the ire of an entire race of milquetoast wishy-washy maybe-sorta vampire-lite but-really-totally-normal-you-guys vampire-folk and their mysterious crimson benefactor.

But Elvira has certainly never let the problems others have with her choice of lifestyle stop her.

 

[DracoSuave]

So he just created a dead character. I suppose it cuts out the middleman and the actual wondering of how your character is going to get ganked.

Also when I kill the character for arbitrary tyrannical reasons, it feels less like I'm singling him out.

 

[Dungeoneer]

I was messing around with creating my own Vampire Vampire Vampire when I came across this amazing thread. Given the subject matter, I thought a little bit of thread necromancy might not be inappropriate.

Anyway, so I'm building a Vryloka Vampire with the Vampire heritage feats (RAW says it's legal, baby!). I was hoping for a vampire theme too, but couldn't find one. But I did find one for... Werewolf! (Dragon #410)

That's right: Vampire Vampire Vampire (Werewolf).

Mechanically, this bad boy starts off with four ways to suck blood at first level*! And in close combat, he can use his wolf form for basic attacks. After that the bad news starts: with only a cloth armor proficiency he has piddling AC. His un-enhanced attacks aren't that great either. And with a grand total of two (2) healing surges, he'll be dead (again) soon.

Depending on your perspective, that may or may not be a bad thing.

* - Blood Drinker [Encounter] (Vampire)
- Blood Drain [Encounter] (Heritage Feat)
- Lifeblood [Utility] (Vryloka)
- Taste of Life [At-Will] (Vampire)

 

[I'm A Banana]

I was messing around with creating my own Vampire Vampire Vampire when I came across this amazing thread. Given the subject matter, I thought a little bit of thread necromancy might not be inappropriate.

I like this thread. The Triple Vampire has surprisingly deep ramifications for me on my personal design philosophy. I'm really glad 4e dove into this, and it's something I hope 5e continues.

Anyway, so I'm building a Vryloka Vampire with the Vampire heritage feats (RAW says it's legal, baby!). I was hoping for a vampire theme too, but couldn't find one. But I did find one for... Werewolf! (Dragon #410)

That's right: Vampire Vampire Vampire (Werewolf).

Badger badger badger (mushroom). /reallyoldreference

If we had an alternate timeline where themes were A Thing before the vampire class came out, I think the theme would have probably been a good location for a version of the Vampire that wouldn't have involved sacrificing other things too much.

I had a discovery last week that one thing that really helps the Vampire class is surge-less healing and DR. Which makes it a great fit with the Artificer class, believe it or not. Which also creates a hilarious image in my head, of a vampire who basically uses other peoples' blood to heal everyone. Okay, not the most effective hybrid in the world, but kind of a fun idea for a character, I think!

 

[Dungeoneer]

I like this thread. The Triple Vampire has surprisingly deep ramifications for me on my personal design philosophy. I'm really glad 4e dove into this, and it's something I hope 5e continues.

Seriously?!? What about this hodgepodge of attempts to appeal to the pre-teen emo set inspires you?

If we had an alternate timeline where themes were A Thing before the vampire class came out, I think the theme would have probably been a good location for a version of the Vampire that wouldn't have involved sacrificing other things too much.

But themes did exist long before this class! They go all the way back to 4e Dark Sun, just a couple years on, while Heroes of Shadow was one of the last splat books to come out. I certainly agree that a vampire theme would have made more sense than any of the approaches we actually wound up with. I mean, Heritage Feats make sense in theory but in practice feats are too valuable to a player to sacrifice.[/QUOTE]

I had a discovery last week that one thing that really helps the Vampire class is surge-less healing and DR. Which makes it a great fit with the Artificer class, believe it or not. Which also creates a hilarious image in my head, of a vampire who basically uses other peoples' blood to heal everyone. Okay, not the most effective hybrid in the world, but kind of a fun idea for a character, I think!

Nice.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Seriously?!? What about this hodgepodge of attempts to appeal to the pre-teen emo set inspires you?

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes, D&D -- and tabletop designers in general -- can forget that and can try to make everyone do it all one way. It would've been easy for 4e to just publish some feats and say, "Hey, you wanna be a vampire, you do it LIKE THIS. And maybe re-fluff a lot of stuff."

But they went to, "Hey, you wanna be a vampire, here's three or four different ways to do it. Do whatever works for you."

They can be combined, sure. That clearly isn't necessary, though (and it doesn't result in a greatly effective character, though there are worse options).

That philosophy, that there's not just One Way to be a Vampire, is, IMO, really important when you're making a game that needs to accommodate millions of different tables that all do their own thing.

But themes did exist long before this class! They go all the way back to 4e Dark Sun, just a couple years on, while Heroes of Shadow was one of the last splat books to come out. I certainly agree that a vampire theme would have made more sense than any of the approaches we actually wound up with. I mean, Heritage Feats make sense in theory but in practice feats are too valuable to a player to sacrific

IIRC, Heroes of Shadow came out not too long after Dark Sun, which means they were probably in production at the same time. HoS doesn't have ANY themes. I don't think it was a tool that the team had real access to.

That's my horrible memory talking, though, so I could be wrong.

 

[Dungeoneer]

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes, D&D -- and tabletop designers in general -- can forget that and can try to make everyone do it all one way. It would've been easy for 4e to just publish some feats and say, "Hey, you wanna be a vampire, you do it LIKE THIS. And maybe re-fluff a lot of stuff."

But they went to, "Hey, you wanna be a vampire, here's three or four different ways to do it. Do whatever works for you."

I suppose... I feel like there's gotta be a better way to do it than this, though. For starters, 'vampire' just seems like it's a bad fit for a class in general. And in fact, the actual class seems like a bit of a one-trick pony.

That philosophy, that there's not just One Way to be a Vampire, is, IMO, really important when you're making a game that needs to accommodate millions of different tables that all do their own thing.

Fair enough. Imagine all these options had come out at the same time, though. It would have confused the heck out of players, I would think. Obviously the Vampire Vampire Vampire (Werewolf!) is a joke build, but if all these options had appeared at the same time people would probably assume that they were meant to be used together.

IIRC, Heroes of Shadow came out not too long after Dark Sun, which means they were probably in production at the same time. HoS doesn't have ANY themes. I don't think it was a tool that the team had real access to.

That's my horrible memory talking, though, so I could be wrong.

A little digging shows that the Dark Sun Campaign Setting was released in August 2010, while Heroes of Shadow appeared almost a year later, in April of 2011. The Neverwinter Campaign Guide and the Shadowfell: Gloomwrought box sets, which appeared within the following two months, both featured themes. I don't know the ins-and-outs of game publishing, but it seems like they would have had plenty of chance to learn about themes. Maybe HoS had a delayed release and was actually produced earlier, though, who knows.

 

[TwoSix]

A little digging shows that the Dark Sun Campaign Setting was released in August 2010, while Heroes of Shadow appeared almost a year later, in April of 2011. The Neverwinter Campaign Guide and the Shadowfell: Gloomwrought box sets, which appeared within the following two months, both featured themes. I don't know the ins-and-outs of game publishing, but it seems like they would have had plenty of chance to learn about themes. Maybe HoS had a delayed release and was actually produced earlier, though, who knows.

That's only 8 months. Doesn't leave a lot of time to release Dark Sun, absorb feedback about themes, and then incorporate them into the book.

 

[Klaus]

But themes did exist long before this class! They go all the way back to 4e Dark Sun, just a couple years on, while Heroes of Shadow was one of the last splat books to come out.

And you're wrong. I wrote my part in Heroes of Shadow (shade, vryloka, some feats, paragon paths and epic destinies) before Dark Sun came out. If I could go back, I'd totally make shade a theme.

 

[Tuft]

vampire vampire vampire (werewolf)

Badger badger badger (mushroom). /reallyoldreference

If that is a "really old reference" then... *ouch!*