Converting First Edition Monsters

[freyar]

I'm happy with Minion Dependence and Master Dependence as you have them.

How about advancement on the Master? Does 11-22 HD (Large) work for you? Or would you rather let it go up to 27 or 33?

Environment: Should this be where people run into them or where they live? If it's where they live, I guess that's the Nine Hells. If it's where they're found, I suppose it would be Any or perhaps Any Underground.

Organization: X (Master plus 1-6 minions), Court (Master plus 1-6 minions and X HD of undead)???

 

[Cleon]

I'm happy with Minion Dependence and Master Dependence as you have them.

Updating the Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

I'm happy with Minion Dependence and Master Dependence as you have them.

How about advancement on the Master? Does 11-22 HD (Large) work for you? Or would you rather let it go up to 27 or 33?

I'm fine going up to triple HD like a standard monster. That said, its sorely tempting to have them advance by character class - a few levels of Blackguard, Death Master or Cleric would make for such a charming creature, wouldn't you say.

Well, most intelligence monsters have the option to advance by character level, so let's just list it with regular HD advancement.

Do we want it to gain size too?

12-21 HD (Large), 22-33 HD (Huge)?

Environment: Should this be where people run into them or where they live? If it's where they live, I guess that's the Nine Hells. If it's where they're found, I suppose it would be Any or perhaps Any Underground.

Something like "Any (or the Nine Hells of Baator)" then?

Organization: X (Master plus 1-6 minions), Court (Master plus 1-6 minions and X HD of undead)???

It's a Bone Tyrant, shouldn't the collective noun be a dictatorship?

Anyhow, that looks a good start, but I'd add a Solitary to the front.

 

[freyar]

I'm fine going up to triple HD like a standard monster. That said, its sorely tempting to have them advance by character class - a few levels of Blackguard, Death Master or Cleric would make for such a charming creature, wouldn't you say.

Well, most intelligence monsters have the option to advance by character level, so let's just list it with regular HD advancement.

Do we want it to gain size too?

12-21 HD (Large), 22-33 HD (Huge)?

I'd be ok with
Advancement: 12-21 HD (Large), 22-33 HD (Huge) or by character class
if you like.

Something like "Any (or the Nine Hells of Baator)" then?

Yes, though don't we usually leave off the closed content Baator part? I guess we've never been dinged for anything similar.

It's a Bone Tyrant, shouldn't the collective noun be a dictatorship?

Anyhow, that looks a good start, but I'd add a Solitary to the front.

Organization: Solitary, Court (Master plus 1-6 minions), Autocracy (Master plus 1-6 minions and 50-200 HD of undead)

I kept "Court" because the term is used in Subjugate Undead. Speaking of, does the effective cleric level increase with racial HD?

 

[Cleon]

I'd be ok with
Advancement: 12-21 HD (Large), 22-33 HD (Huge) or by character class
if you like.

Works for me

Yes, though don't we usually leave off the closed content Baator part? I guess we've never been dinged for anything similar.

I'm sure we had a discussion of this point before.

Shall we use "Any (or a lawful evil outer plane)" then, which is more in line with the SRD?

Organization: Solitary, Court (Master plus 1-6 minions), Autocracy (Master plus 1-6 minions and 50-200 HD of undead)

I kept "Court" because the term is used in Subjugate Undead.

Works for me.

Speaking of, does the effective cleric level increase with racial HD?

No, as written it needs to gain a class that can turn/rebuke undead to increase the effective cleric level.

 

[freyar]

OK, advancement and org are finished. I'll agree to that environment, as well.

I feel that the Masters are around CR 6 by themselves, but the Unhallowed Aura combined with Marshall and Subjugate Undead is worth quite a bit. I think the point is that Subjugated Undead aren't summoned critters, so they should have their own CR, but the Master gets a CR boost because they are quite good boosters themselves. So maybe CR 7?

Sorry I've been absent a bit, just really slammed at work. But I am now getting basically caught up.

 

[Cleon]

OK, advancement and org are finished. I'll agree to that environment, as well.

Updating the Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

I tweaked the Environment to "Any land or a lawful evil outer plane".

I feel that the Masters are around CR 6 by themselves, but the Unhallowed Aura combined with Marshall and Subjugate Undead is worth quite a bit. I think the point is that Subjugated Undead aren't summoned critters, so they should have their own CR, but the Master gets a CR boost because they are quite good boosters themselves. So maybe CR 7?

The CR question is a bit tricky, since by themselves Master's aren't that tough. Their combat stats are pretty weedy apart from a decent AC.

Challenge Rating 6 seems about right - compare one to a Babau or Annis Hag and they appear to be in the same ballpark.

It might be better to add a note that subservient undead encountered with a Bone Tyrant Master have an Encounter Level adjustment, but even that would seem to be too much, since the only enhancement they give their undead servitors is to make them harder to turn.

How about we make it CR 6 for the Master and CR 2 (3 if bonded to a Master) for the Minions?

Sorry I've been absent a bit, just really slammed at work. But I am now getting basically caught up.

Yes, I've noticed things have been quiet around these parts.

 

[Cleon]

We've got some attributes of the Minions to settle on as well.

How about:

Skill Ranks: Intimidate 6, Knowledge (religion) 3, Knowledge (the planes) 3, Listen 6, Spot 6

Skills: Intimidate +9, Knowledge (religion) +3, Knowledge (the planes) +3, Listen +8, Spot +8

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack

Organization: Solitary, squad (1 plus 5-30 HD of undead), host (1-6 minions plus 50-200 HD of undead) or autocracy (1-6 plus 1 bone tyrant master and 50-200 HD of undead)

Challenge Rating: 2 (3 if bonded to bone tyrant master)

Advancement: — (but see Master Dependence)

Level Adjustment: —

 

[freyar]

I'll agree to the CRs you propose. I think I'd add an underbar suggesting that the DM may want to adjust the EL based on the granted turning resistance. After all, with the numbers of undead we're talking about, making turning more difficult could be a big difference. But it probably depends sensitively on the precise encounter.

Your suggestions for the minions are good, except I think the org should include the "court (1-6 plus 1 bone tyrant master)" option.

 

[Cleon]

I'll agree to the CRs you propose. I think I'd add an underbar suggesting that the DM may want to adjust the EL based on the granted turning resistance. After all, with the numbers of undead we're talking about, making turning more difficult could be a big difference. But it probably depends sensitively on the precise encounter.

Your suggestions for the minions are good, except I think the org should include the "court (1-6 plus 1 bone tyrant master)" option.

That works for me.

Updating the Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Tactics (master): Rather than entering combat itself, a bone tyrant master prefers to direct its minions and subjugated undead in battle. When in melee, a bone tyrant master makes heavy use of its Divine Might and Power Attack feats.

Does it need anything else???