D&D 5E Does anyone DIE in D&D Next: Stabilization Problems

Stabilization is way too easy, especially with spare the dying. I've been DMing since the beginning of the public playtest, and I've only seen four character deaths: One when a player foolishly ran off on his own during an invasion of a fortified beachhead, two from a critical failure on a death save while the cleric was incapacitated, and one from energy drain (which kills you at 0, bypassing negative hp).

The question unasked is how common PC deaths should be. Given the plan for modular play, it seems reasonable to set a core rules default, and include modules which alter the lethality.

The yo-yo effect is easily avoided if the cantrip instead stabilizes the character, but requires he heal from zero before being able to rejoin combat, which is the Pathfinder approach.

If I were designing the game with the objective of growing the player base, then I'd lean to core rules that carry a limited risk of PC death, and greater lethality being a module which can be adopted with full knowledge that it will mean more frequent character deaths. It's not a lot of fun for the new players to spend more time making new characters than playing the game. I'd also be focusing on the potential for loss without death - if you survive, but the task you set out to achieve is not accomplished, that is still a loss.

But I've never been a fan of meat grinder play where the players keep rolling up new characters to throw at the near-impossible challenge until someone gets lucky and makes it through. Some gamers prefer a much more lethal style, which can be accommodated through modules upping lethality. The option of a very lethal default and modules to enhance survivability also exists, of course, but the default should target enjoyment of the game for new players. To me, that's a pretty low lethality setting.
 

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I still prefer dead at zero.

It still works. :D

I am a little more forgiving in the OD&D I'm running. The death threshold is CON/2 + level. So a level 1 fighter with CON 16 would have a threshold of 9. Between 0 and this threshold a dying character loses 1-3 points per round. Stabilization from an untrained companion takes 1-6 rounds. A character with the healer background (available to any class) can stabilize in a single round.

I like this because aid needs to come quickly even for higher level characters, and the variable damage means that it becomes harder to metagame exactly when a dying companion will expire. There is a lot more tension at the table because the damage/stabilization time are rolled in secret. So when someone goes down, you have to keep working on them until they expire or stabilize and you don't know when either could happen.
 

In 3e (and to a lesser extent 4e), having a monster strike a downed PC is basically instant death for them. Since my groups don't go for high churn, we've all avoided making monsters do that.

This is an interesting point.

I too have become so used to having monsters "not attack a downed player" its almost an implicit game rule for me. I wonder if the people finding 5e's dying rules "too generous" are also sticking with this common notion?

I haven't gotten to play enough to know myself, but its a good question.
 

This is an interesting point.

I too have become so used to having monsters "not attack a downed player" its almost an implicit game rule for me. I wonder if the people finding 5e's dying rules "too generous" are also sticking with this common notion?

I haven't gotten to play enough to know myself, but its a good question.

over the years of 4e play I have struck downed PCs 5 times, each was very memorable...

1) My undead game 2, the zombie hoard knocked a PC down an eat him will the others ran...
2) My pirate game the death knight BBEG took a round to coupdegrace a PC well not careing everyone else was wailing on him...
3) & 4) I had a PC cleric with every healing power you could imagine, We had a fight were he brought from negative back up out of bloodied a PC, the next time a PC went down every soldier focus fired until he died... the very next round the cleric droped and they did the same thing but without success... he was pissed, until I asked what he would do if he was the bad guy warlord?
5) My first 4e campaign inside the pyrmid of shadows was a monster headless thing... It had a double slam attack and I declaird "I double slam, then action point and double slam again" against our swordmage, I droped 4d20 and they read 20, 18, 20, 19... the first crit brought him to single digit hp, the second hit brought him to negatives... but since I not only already declaied but rolled, I had to hit him 2 more times one was a crit... he drew up a fighter as his next character....
 

This is an interesting point.

I too have become so used to having monsters "not attack a downed player" its almost an implicit game rule for me. I wonder if the people finding 5e's dying rules "too generous" are also sticking with this common notion?

I haven't gotten to play enough to know myself, but its a good question.

I was thinking the same thing. Many of us are used to dumbing down the monster tactics to make up for certain rules. Perhaps 5e won't need that, and we can play them smart.
 

over the years of 4e play I have struck downed PCs 5 times, each was very memorable...

1) My undead game 2, the zombie hoard knocked a PC down an eat him will the others ran...
2) My pirate game the death knight BBEG took a round to coupdegrace a PC well not careing everyone else was wailing on him...
3) & 4) I had a PC cleric with every healing power you could imagine, We had a fight were he brought from negative back up out of bloodied a PC, the next time a PC went down every soldier focus fired until he died... the very next round the cleric droped and they did the same thing but without success... he was pissed, until I asked what he would do if he was the bad guy warlord?
5) My first 4e campaign inside the pyrmid of shadows was a monster headless thing... It had a double slam attack and I declaird "I double slam, then action point and double slam again" against our swordmage, I droped 4d20 and they read 20, 18, 20, 19... the first crit brought him to single digit hp, the second hit brought him to negatives... but since I not only already declaied but rolled, I had to hit him 2 more times one was a crit... he drew up a fighter as his next character....

Very low-level I presume? I so often hear of people dying and making new characters, and wonder if raise dead isn't being used by the book in their games...
 

Haven't tried it with Next yet, but I always thought it was a lot easier to stabilize in 1e/2e than it was in 3e or 4e. Back in the old days, you only had to reach your fallen & dying companion to "stanch the bleeding" in order to save him or her. As the DM would say it - put a finger on the wound to keep the blood from spurting out.

I think with 3e/3.5e/4e, you needed to make a DC:15 healing check to stabilize them - not always easy to do.

Sounds like Next is turning it back to old school days?
 

I think with 3e/3.5e/4e, you needed to make a DC:15 healing check to stabilize them - not always easy to do.

Sounds like Next is turning it back to old school days?
A DC 10 check in Next is generally as difficult as a DC 15 in the other systems at early levels and _much_ harder at later levels. That is to say, you quickly autosucceed at the necessary Heal check in 3e/4e, but you'll probably always have a chance of failure in Next.
 

Very low-level I presume? I so often hear of people dying and making new characters, and wonder if raise dead isn't being used by the book in their games...
Quite a few DMs ban resurrection magic or make it much more difficult than it is by RAW. It's the one thing I house-rule in every D&D game I run--I think easy resurrection makes for an absurd game world and makes PC death all but meaningless.
 

Very low-level I presume? I so often hear of people dying and making new characters, and wonder if raise dead isn't being used by the book in their games...

in my first example the PCs were level 1 with no ritual casters and the body was eaten...

in my second example the PC did get a raise dead and swore an undying oath to return the DK to hell

in the 3/4 examples the cleric with all the healing powers did raise the PC that died that night

only the 5th example fits your question, and stuck in the pyramid it was not easy to raise the PC, but having found another adventurer was easy (plus cut me some slack on it being my first try at 4e)

in general we run that if a PC has it AOK if not then finding someone to cast the ritual is an adventure in and of itself...
 

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