D&D General Fighter Design: The Battle Die

[the Jester]

A long-running back burner project of mine is building the perfect D&D. This thread is about a concept I have for the fighter: the battle die. I'd like some feedback on it, if anyone has some to give.

The idea is that every round, a fighter gets a die that they can use in various ways. It starts as a d4 and increases over time. The fighter can use it every round, but only once per round. They can do things like:

• Add it to a weapon attack roll (probably after rolling the d20 but before knowing the result)
• Add it to a weapon damage roll
• Add it to the fighter's AC as a reaction when hit, maybe making that hit miss
• Subtract it from damage caused to the fighter by an attack
• Do that much damage when making an attack that normally doesn't do damage, such as a trip, disarm, or grapple
• Do that much damage on a missed attack
• Use it as a bonus to an Athletics check (or maybe any skill used in combat)
• Add it to a saving throw
• Add it to combat stunts in some way- for instance, push further

This would be a replacement for most combat-related feats and features that are strictly nonmagical. I'm considering tying extra attacks to it- you can spend your battle die to try to make an extra attack; if you roll a 4+ on the die, you can take an extra attack, so as the number of sides on the die goes up, your odds of getting a second attack increase. I'm not sure if I like that, though.

The idea is that the battle die gives a fighter round-by-round versatility and options while being simple enough to play that players who prefer to just hit things with their sword can simply always use their battle die as a bonus to attack or damage or something.

Anyway, I welcome any feedback.

 

[Stalker0]

Its a question of how much complexity you want to add. You might consider only adding one use per "category".

For example: having an AC boost AND a "reduce damage" boost both do fundamentally the same thing (obviously not exactly the same but they serve the purpose of less damage to the fighter). You might consider having one of those.

Similar with attack, instead of bonus to hit and bonus to damage options, choose one.

The tactics to me of this kind of model of choosing your path but balancing with what you have lost. For example I add to an attack, but now would not get an AC boost this round. I boosted my AC against that big attack, but what if I need a saving throw boost against that hag spellcaster? That is where the complexity of the class comes in, rather than the more nuanced "hmm do I boost my DPS through an attack bonus or a damage bonus?"

 

[Baron Opal II]

Interesting!

I'm a bit critical of increasing die sizes, but that's personal taste. One thing I want to experiment with is rolling best of x dice. So you roll 1 die at 1st level, best of two at 5th (say), three at 9th, what have you. I think statistically it is basically a result of 6 at four dice with d6s.

I like that you could build a style or guild around maneuvers, and this is what you gain the die as a bonus for.

 

[Quickleaf]

What’s the “ecosystem” that your Battle Die exists in? How does it relate to the rest of your fighter class design? Does the fighter class have escalating attack bonus independent of Battle Die?

 

[ezo]

A long-running back burner project of mine is building the perfect D&D.

Join the club.

The idea is that every round, a fighter gets a die that they can use in various ways. It starts as a d4 and increases over time. The fighter can use it every round, but only once per round. They can do things like:

• Add it to a weapon attack roll (probably after rolling the d20 but before knowing the result)
• Add it to a weapon damage roll
• Add it to the fighter's AC as a reaction when hit, maybe making that hit miss
• Subtract it from damage caused to the fighter by an attack
• Do that much damage when making an attack that normally doesn't do damage, such as a trip, disarm, or grapple
• Do that much damage on a missed attack
• Use it as a bonus to an Athletics check (or maybe any skill used in combat)
• Add it to a saving throw
• Add it to combat stunts in some way- for instance, push further

This would be a replacement for most combat-related feats and features that are strictly nonmagical. I'm considering tying extra attacks to it- you can spend your battle die to try to make an extra attack; if you roll a 4+ on the die, you can take an extra attack, so as the number of sides on the die goes up, your odds of getting a second attack increase. I'm not sure if I like that, though.

The idea is that the battle die gives a fighter round-by-round versatility and options while being simple enough to play that players who prefer to just hit things with their sword can simply always use their battle die as a bonus to attack or damage or something.

Anyway, I welcome any feedback.

We've played with a similar idea, but instead of rolling a die, we used proficiency bonus. (I'm just not a fan of extra dice, so thinks like bless and guidance are a flat +2 instead of a d4).

We also had the effects require using the PC's reaction (with the acception of gaining the bonus to an OA).

Another option you can consider to avoid analysis paralysis is to allow players to choose a number of "maneuvers" instead of allowing all at once a la carte'.

I've always thought such a thing was a good idea, but the implementation must be decent without being overpowering as it is an at-will feature (or so it seems).

 

[the Jester]

What’s the “ecosystem” that your Battle Die exists in? How does it relate to the rest of your fighter class design? Does the fighter class have escalating attack bonus independent of Battle Die?

That's one of my internal debates right now.

Classes will have 10 levels. My hope is to capture "this guy is a badass in combat" with one rule that has many applications instead of trickling out many different options over time. I may give fighters a second attack somewhere in there (maybe level 5?) but won't both do this and allow the battle die to generate another attack. The battle die also sort of replaces proficiency bonus- I don't think I am going to be using that at all.

 

[ezo]

Might I recommend a feature @DND_Reborn uses in the current design/homebrew:

Consistent Attack. When you take an action other than the Attack action, you can use your bonus action to make a weapon attack.

I don't recall off-hand what level this come online at, but I've always liked it and found it added a lot of versatility to fighters, allowing them to "fight defensively" (i.e. Dodge) but still get in an attack; "pack tactics" for another (i.e. Help), etc.

FWIW, our "perfect D&D" flucuate between 10-12 levels. I think that really is the sweetspot.

 

[Shiroiken]

Similar to the old D&D Next playtest, which I was a big fan of. I would suggest the fighter learn different options, rather than simply having all of them available. In addition, I would suggest the following modifications:

• Accuracy: you may add half the die result, rounded up, to an attack roll. You must decide to use this after rolling the d20, but before knowing the result of the attack.
  • Attack is much more valuable a resource
• Damage: you may add the result to a weapon damage roll.
• Parry: you may add the result to your AC as a reaction to being hit by an attack, possibly turning the hit into a miss.
• Endurance: you may roll the die twice, reducing the damage from an attack by the result.
  • Reducing damage is a lot less powerful than being able to negate an attack.
• Overwhelm: you may add the die result as bludgeoning damage on an attack that does not normally deal damage (e.g., trip, disarm, shove, etc.).
• Relentless: you may add the die result plus your attack modifier to the damage of a missed attack.
• Athletic: you may add the die result to an Athletics, Acrobatics, or Intimidation check
  • I'd use all the Fighter class skills here, but I don't remember them all
• Lucky: you may add the result to a Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity Saving Throw after you roll the d20, but before you know the result.
  • Should be more limited than all saves IMO

 

[el-remmen]

Love it! I was literally just working on my "Frankenstein D&D" (aka "Vanity 5E" ) and scrapping a similar (but not as good) Combat Die mechanic for something based on 2024's weapon mastery, when I noticed this thread. This is making me reconsider.

 

[aco175]

Is the idea of the thread that 'fighter's suck' and they need something more?

I kind of like the idea of a battle die, but not sure if the other classes would like one as well. It also seems to be able to influence everything. I can see a more gaining of things it can do as you level and start with a few things, having the player pick from a list sort of like warlock invocations.

Maybe also having the die increase each turn you do not use it. Not sure what the OP meant by over time so you can start with the d4 which is still enough with bounded accuracy in 5e, but now the player can save it and it grows as the battle goes on. D4, d6, d8, d10 might be the last since fights tend to be over after only several rounds and how much more do you need.