D&D (2024) Martials: damage scaling like cantrips?

[Cap'n Kobold]

If a level 5 fighter, even one defensively specced like that one presumably is, is only doing 9 DPR they need help.

Why are they only +3 in stat? Level 5 and not even a +1 weapon? No weapon mastery? What combat style? Not to mention all the other potential damage boosters that stack on weapon damage and which a cantrip generally lacks.

No, seems about right for most players of martial types.
+3 bonus fits: Start with a 14 + 2 background/species bonus. +1 from your 4th level feat = 17.
That's a +3 bonus.

At level 5 you're not guaranteed to have any magic weapons, let alone the ideal one for your build.

There are several combat styles that do not increase your damage.

I can't think of many additional damage boosters that stack on weapon damage that are broadly applicable enough to assume that they're always in effect.

UngainlyTitan's base example fits most fighters just fine. Optimisation or favourable DMs are not required assumptions.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

No, seems about right for most players of martial types.
+3 bonus fits: Start with a 14 + 2 background/species bonus. +1 from your 4th level feat = 17.
That's a +3 bonus.

At level 5 you're not guaranteed to have any magic weapons, let alone the ideal one for your build.

There are several combat styles that do not increase your damage.

I can't think of many additional damage boosters that stack on weapon damage that are broadly applicable enough to assume that they're always in effect.

UngainlyTitan's base example fits most fighters just fine. Optimisation or favourable DMs are not required assumptions.

I would like to add that in my example the fighter is doing about 36% more damage than the cantrip, sufficient, I think to demonstrate the point.

 

[jayoungr]

Rogues get extra sneak attack dice, which scales similarly to cantrips.

 

[Theory of Games]

Rogues get extra sneak attack dice, which scales similarly to cantrips.

True. The problem is Fighters lack a similar scaling damage type.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

the idea is more you get 3 attacks for x3 damage than going to either of the ends of the scale.

3 attacks for 3x is close to twice as mich damage tham 5x1 or vice versa...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The problem is everyone and their dog now gets extra attack, and also gets to sub in a cantrip as an attack. So for the levels people actually play, the fighter is the chump attacking twice with regular attacks while the valor bard is attacking twice and subbing in a greenflame blade or something for more damage. Oh and is a full 9 level spellcaster with bardic inspiration dice rivaling superiority dice.

Masteries should have been like the BG3 weapon special abilities (with additional weapon dice of damage) so you can sub in one of them instead of an attack. As is, they just stack on top of your greenflame blade spam.

Greem flame blade is legacy. And for good reason. If you need to use true strike, it is more difficult to use them with extra attack.
So if this bothers you, just disallow it.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Greem flame blade is legacy. And for good reason. If you need to use true strike, it is more difficult to use them with extra attack.
So if this bothers you, just disallow it.

How would that not work? They're both 1 action cantrips you make an attack with as part of the casting.

 

[James Gasik]

How would that not work? They're both 1 action cantrips you make an attack with as part of the casting.

Eldritch Knight-

Level 7: War Magic​

When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action.

True Strike

Casting Time: Action
Range: Self
Components: S, M (a weapon with which you have proficiency and that is worth 1+ CP)
Duration: Instantaneous

Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).

Cantrip Upgrade. Whether you deal Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type, the attack deals extra Radiant damage when you reach levels 5 (1d6), 11 (2d6), and 17 (3d6).


Seems to work just fine, is there some strange rules interaction I'm not seeing?

 

[Horwath]

as is most martials end up having two attacks by default, do you think it would be better if they got more?

yes, it would also feed into narrative that you can kill a lot of mooks per turn without some cleave mechanics as an option.
also it's fun to roll attack rolls more times, at least for me.

with a lot more attacks per attack action, TWF can be made easier, just increase number of attacks by 50%, round up and divide them to main hand and off hand attacks.

IE:

1 attack: TWF, 1,5attacks, round up to 2 attacks, 1MainHand, 1 OffHand attack
2 attacks: TWF, 3 attacks, round up to 3 attacks, 2MH, 1OH
3 attacks: TWF, 4,5 attacks, round up to 5 attacks, 3MH, 2OH
4 attacks: TWF, 6 attacks, round up to 6 attacks, 3MH, 3OH
5 attacks: TWF, 7,5 attacks, round up to 8 attacks, 4MH, 4OH
6 attacks: TWF, 9 attacks, round up to 9 attacks, 5MH, 4OH
7 attacks: TWF, 10,5 attacks, round up to 11 attacks, 6MH, 5OH
8 attacks: TWF, 12 attacks, round up to 12 attacks, 6MH, 6OH

 

[UngeheuerLich]

How would that not work? They're both 1 action cantrips you make an attack with as part of the casting.

It does not. I meant as an eldritch knight or valor bard with their extra attack:

One normal attack + one cantrip.