D&D 4E Is there any D&D 4th computer game?

[Halivar]

The reason that there is no big 4E video game is not because of the rules, video games don't follow the rules of tabletop games most of the time anyway, but that publishers have no interest in D&D 4E.

Which is why there are no D&D board games, either?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Aside from the fact that I have an MBA, MCL in Computer Sciences (programming), and about 22 years of experience in the field as a both R&D in tabletop and R&D GM in MMO's, I beg to differ. The simplicity of the 4e rule-set by many has been rightfully touted as basically turning D&D into WoW. The fact that older D&D rules had more rules made the programmers job easier NOT harder. If you have a printed rule you have a clear "if-then". Basic programming 101. I remember when I first entered programming it was BASIC on the C=64 and man was I happy to have a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia sitting next to me. I was even more ecstatic when Players Options came out for 2nd Edition. Made my job SOOO much easier. Once you mentally parse the rules into if-then's, viola, you can code it. With that said I guess I just contradicted myself a bit and should clarify. I guess in the long run it would be easier to code 4th edition because there are less rules, but the difference is so minuscule as to almost render itself moot.

As for the whole branding issue, well, I'm a Kopimist so the whole capitalist drive behind it is junk as far as I'm concerned and largely what will lead to the death of the franchise in the short term. Who wants to keep reworking the code to stick to the flavor of the "current" edition. I sure the hell wouldn't. I'd jut drop it like a rock and recommend people go out and buy an older, tested system, some dice and forget CPRG'ing. Play by yourself if you have to.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've spent 28 years now as a lead software engineer. I know all there is to know about writing code, and a LOT about user interaction and usability analysis, etc. 4e would be a b**%ard to implement. Every class requires 100's of powers, feats, and class features. They're not all very simple either. Some are even pretty open-ended (though not many). Lots of others create subtle exceptions that then have to be considered in the "core" part of the game engine. In its essence the old SSI engine was quite simple. There are really very few exceptions and special cases in the core of 1e. Spells of course in a refereed PnP game can be pretty open-ended, but they mostly have either A) almost entirely 'story' effects which no CRPG engine can handle except as special "use it here to unlock" type exceptions (and 4e has the same issue with rituals); or B) they have a pretty cut-and-dried effect and any other possible utility is ignorable (IE you can blast enemies in Pool of Radiance with a Fireball, but you can't set things on fire). Again B also comes up in 4e, as it would in any RPG in some form.

All this is largely aside though because the REAL fault with 4e would be in terms of user interaction and playability. Given how key out-of-turn actions and reactions are to the mechanics of the game you're entirely limited to turn-based CRPG, and nobody has successfully introduced one of those to the market in literally 20 years. Its a dead genre. Even assuming you would raise this genre from the dead and garner the interest required to fund a game you still have a rather cumbersome game as a result where the player is constantly being prompted to decide whether or not to trigger some effect at virtually every enemy action. It would just be a huge drag and a poor user experience. Heck, it was accused of being that as a PnP game and computerizing it would just emphasize that issue even more. 4e is just a bad example of an RPG to try to turn into a CRPG. In fact TBH ironically I can't think of a worse one (there probably are some, but you'd have to venture into indie games to find them probably). DW for instance would be literally impossible to implement as a CRPG, it would be a pointless exercise.

I also agree with Halivar, D&D is just not worth that much to the computer game studios. The big ones have major brands of their own like Dragon Age, Warcraft, etc and the smaller studios have a rich heritage of material to pilfer to create something new. They can even skate in pretty close to the feel of older editions of D&D if they really want to. I'm sure someday SOMEONE will make another D&D branded CRPG, but its virtually certain to be based on either legacy rules (Basic would be pretty cool for a retro feel), or on some variation of DDN.

 

[Derren]

Which is why there are no D&D board games, either?

You mean the ones published by WotC/Hasbro?
I am talking about video game publishers and they play in a different league than WotC. You might think that D&D is some valuable brand, but in video games it isn't. Its various implementations like "Baldurs Gate" and "Neverwinter" were, but not the D&D name itself, especially after the last few rather bad D&D implementations. And the 4E backlash affected the PC community, too.

 

[Halivar]

Given how key out-of-turn actions and reactions are to the mechanics of the game you're entirely limited to turn-based CRPG, and nobody has successfully introduced one of those to the market in literally 20 years. Its a dead genre.

Stop it. You're making me cry.

And the 4E backlash affected the PC community, too.

How so?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Stop it. You're making me cry.

I know, I was raised on Dungeon Hack and Bard's Tale also... It was a FUN genre, but its death knell was basically "Warrior needs food badly" and it hasn't looked good ever since.

 

[Obryn]

Given how key out-of-turn actions and reactions are to the mechanics of the game you're entirely limited to turn-based CRPG, and nobody has successfully introduced one of those to the market in literally 20 years. Its a dead genre.

...which is also, btw, my candidate for the closest approximation to a 4e CRPG we're going to get.

How so?

It's Derren mentioning 4e, so basically "because reasons" would be my bet.

 

[Halivar]

...which is also, btw, my candidate for the closest approximation to a 4e CRPG we're going to get.

Myself, I'm holding out for Unsung Story, made the guy who made FF: Tactics.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/482445197/unsung-story-tale-of-the-guardians

 

[Rygar]

All this is largely aside though because the REAL fault with 4e would be in terms of user interaction and playability. Given how key out-of-turn actions and reactions are to the mechanics of the game you're entirely limited to turn-based CRPG, and nobody has successfully introduced one of those to the market in literally 20 years. Its a dead genre. Even assuming you would raise this genre from the dead and garner the interest required to fund a game you still have a rather cumbersome game as a result where the player is constantly being prompted to decide whether or not to trigger some effect at virtually every enemy action. It would just be a huge drag and a poor user experience. Heck, it was accused of being that as a PnP game and computerizing it would just emphasize that issue even more. 4e is just a bad example of an RPG to try to turn into a CRPG. In fact TBH ironically I can't think of a worse one (there probably are some, but you'd have to venture into indie games to find them probably). DW for instance would be literally impossible to implement as a CRPG, it would be a pointless exercise.

X-com
Valkyria Chronicles
Wasteland 2
Torment 2 (Can't remember it's name right now)
Civilization
Warlock
Half of the game in any given Total War game

TB games are dead only in the eyes of Publishers who're drowning in creative bankruptcy and praying that if they keep releasing FPS's they'll be able to stay afloat one more year. Everyone else releases them and does just fine.

 

[Obryn]

X-com
Valkyria Chronicles
Wasteland 2
Torment 2 (Can't remember it's name right now)
Civilization
Warlock
Half of the game in any given Total War game

Shadowrun Returns, too, no?

But yeah, Xcom was a successful game by pretty much any measure, and it was almost 4e's mechanics on the nose, from move/minor/standard, to class-based encounter abilities, to reactions in the form of overwatch.

 

[Derren]

How so?

A lot of people were not all that thrilled that 4E changed so much of the established settings (Baldurs Gate/Neverwinter).