D&D 3E/3.5 Your take on Mirror Image, 3.0 or 3.5

[N'raac]

And why do you feel that your interpretation should be the only one used? Because your own experiences, opinions, and interpretations trump others'? Such hubris!

I'm not arguing that my read is the only read. I am refusing to say that "playing it Greenfield's way" is "sticking to RAW" because the RAW itself is unclear.

If there can be multiple different, but possibly correct, interpretations of a rule then saying one of them is "RAW" is meaningless because the others could very well be "RAW" too.

NOne of them are "RAW" when the rules are not clear. RAW says you get 1-4 images +1/3 caster levels, provides image AC, dissipation on an attack, etc. None of which are in dispute here. The question posed because RAW is unclear, or even contradictory, is how the images spread out. That leads to the discussion.

And the OP did request a heated discussion, did he not?

 

[Greenfield]

The Thread That Wouldn't Die!

Okay, so you Search, using the Scent ability your character doesn't have, and you notice that only one image has body odor. You yell at your team mates to hit that one.

And, since they removed that part of the spell description that says that, once you know which one is real, you can target that one for the rest of the round, it helps you/them how?

They can't target the image you found.

Now, is my reading of the spell the only "right" way? Of course not. It seems odd, though, to place a spacing limit on a spell that occupies only one space.

 

[N'raac]

I find it hard to say there is a "right way". The wording of the spell is ambiguous. Overall, I think there are fewer inconsistencies (ie less extra rulings to make) by placing the images in the caster's square than by spacing them out, but that is just as much an interpretation as spacing them out in separate squares. Pathfinder cleaned it up nicely, in my view, but as they agree with my approach, I'm far from unbiased.

This spell creates a number of illusory doubles of you that inhabit your square. These doubles make it difficult for enemies to precisely locate and attack you.

When mirror image is cast, 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total) are created. These images remain in your space and move with you, mimicking your movements, sounds, and actions exactly. Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead. If the attack is a hit, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. If it is a figment, the figment is destroyed. If the attack misses by 5 or less, one of your figments is destroyed by the near miss. Area spells affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells that require a touch attack are harmlessly discharged if used to destroy a figment.

An attacker must be able to see the figments to be fooled. If you are invisible or the attacker is blind, the spell has no effect (although the normal miss chances still apply).

Their ruling on Cleave is that it does not allow a second shot (but their Cleave is quite different) and their Magic Missile ruling is that MM always hits its target, so it gets the caster, and not an image, every time (can't even hit an image on purpose).

 

[GaimMastr]

The meaning of roleplay ... and ... a Good GM/Group combination

It's safe to say that there are many ways one can fit the spell in their own game to the particular flavor of that gaming groups preferences. It's obvious that when you resolve one aspect of a quandary you often find yourself posited with 2 or more other quandaries. This is why a good GM is a must and an agreeable group is a bonus.

Spells like this often remind us what it takes to have an effective game. I think that with what has been stated on this thread so far we have compiled enough brainstorming for the annals of the internet to absorb. In doing so have created a VAST treasure of meta-game player-GM knowledge for all future seekers of the inner workings of this spell and it's seemingly limitless interpretations to draw upon when adjudicating a situation involving Mirror Image.


...end...

 

[Greenfield]

Consider the confusion it would bring if the Fireball spell included the note that "Target areas must be within a 90 degree arc."

People would be asking "Areas, plural?"

As soon as a spell description says how far apart effects can be, it implicitly says that they can be far apart.

Now, it doesn't say that they have to be spread out, just that they can be. There's nothing to say that eight images couldn't be occupying four squares. Or one square. Or eight squares.

But, as written, eight squares is a possibility.

 

[N'raac]

No question the writeup is poor. Either "all in one square" or detail on how they fan out would be preferable.

 

[pemerton]

Okay, so you Search, using the Scent ability your character doesn't have, and you notice that only one image has body odor. You yell at your team mates to hit that one.

And, since they removed that part of the spell description that says that, once you know which one is real, you can target that one for the rest of the round, it helps you/them how?

They can't target the image you found.

I didn't know that 3E was so dissociated that only characters with the Scent ability can smell things. I though the Scent ability meant you could smell things without having to make a Search check. (The ability says that "Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odours just as humans do familiar sights", which implies to me that no check is required.)

As to bits of text being removed - I didn't realise it was a principle of interpreting 3E spells that I had to refer to earlier edition spell descriptions. In any event, the spell says this: "While moving, you can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded." That text unambiguously implies that an enemy can learn which image is real, and will be confounded only when the caster moves and thereby "shuffles" the images.

Once a person has learned which image is real, why can't s/he tell others? Does the spell addle the mind even though it lacks the [phantasm] descriptor?

 

[N'raac]

I didn't know that 3E was so dissociated that only characters with the Scent ability can smell things. I though the Scent ability meant you could smell things without having to make a Search check. (The ability says that "Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odours just as humans do familiar sights", which implies to me that no check is required.)

I don't believe the human sense of smell is typically so precise that one can target by smell, especially in the chaos of melee.

As to bits of text being removed - I didn't realise it was a principle of interpreting 3E spells that I had to refer to earlier edition spell descriptions. In any event, the spell says this: "While moving, you can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded." That text unambiguously implies that an enemy can learn which image is real, and will be confounded only when the caster moves and thereby "shuffles" the images.

I agree the spell description should stand on its own. The fact this one does not is a weakness in the writing, but that doesn't tell us prior editions reflect the intent. If the text has to imply something, I find it hard to consider that unambiguous, though. While the text suggests one can identify the real image, it does not indicate how this might be done. Is it a simple Perception roll? If so, what is the DC? Perhaps I can use Detect Magic to separate the real person from the images? Maybe it takes a Wish to know which is the real Wizard until the next shuffle? Perhaps it works if I hit the real one by accident? The spell description doesn't tell us how easy or difficult it is to identify the real wizard, or even suggest the means of doing so.

Once a person has learned which image is real, why can't s/he tell others? Does the spell addle the mind even though it lacks the [phantasm] descriptor?

Realistically, I should be able to communicate which is real to my teammates. Is it realistic that I can do so, in the chaos of combat, in the six seconds or less before the wizard has an opportunity to move and shuffle all the images, even assuming we accept that the Wizard is not constantly moving (and thus the images constantly shuffling) in combat, as opposed to requiring the wizard take an action including movement for the images to shuffle? How much information can be rapidly conveyed in the heat of combat over a period of six seconds?

 

[Greenfield]

One obvious way to determine whether a particular image is real would be to hit it.

If it doesn't pop, it's real. In previous editions it was made clear that you could keep hitting that one, once you knew it was real.

I've seen a lot of spell descriptions where it was obvious that the writer was thinking about previous versions, and presuming that everyone knew them.

For example, they got rid of an aspect in Polymorph Other/Baleful Polymorph where the victim had to make a Save every day or lose their identity to that of the new form. They took that out in 3.0 (Polymorph Other), but still made references to it elsewhere in the rules.

I think this is one of those cases where the spell description should stand on its own, but doesn't.

This is the sort of thing that happens when a book's proofreader is already familiar with the material. They, like the author, see what used to be there and not what is.

 

[Starfox]

I ask [MENTION=60045]Tuft[/MENTION] to post his mirror-image drawing here. ^^

I've always read it that the movement the caster has to do is not actually moving from square to square, but just not being immobilized.


My problem with mirror image is twofold:

I feel the images should be very easy (read automatic) to hit, if nothing else then for bookeeping purposes.

How do they interact with Stealth? Cover? Concealment? - all of these are really the same issue.