Pathfinder 1E Mythic Pathfinder = how to break a game

[LWDLiz]

If Mythic Adventures has become a go-to rules addition for your group, you'll have to talk that over with them. But if you think that it's become a go-to addition for Paizo, you're seriously mistaken.

Cheers!
Kinak

This! Personally, my group is playing with Mythic rules and we're loving it. My GM has been able to create Mythic monsters that challenge us. However, maybe it's not a good fit for your group.

If you're not enjoying the game as a player, I think it's more important that you discuss this with your GM. One of the biggest struggles I've run into with gaming groups is players not communicating with their GMs when they're not feeling engaged with the story, whether it's feeling not challenged or not having their role-playing needs met. My two cents.

 

[Alzrius]

A fully optimized two handed fighter (more of a glass cannon) could do a standard action single attack every round for over 800 damage and surge to do it twice.

Details or it didn't happen.

Seriously, while there are some legitimate issues with how the numbers increase as the power level rises, just as many of them are due to questionable combinations, bad math, or other instances of human error. Showing how you come to this point would help to back your complaint up.

 

[Necromancy]

I'm working right now but ill post a build and explanation in a few hours. Question is, should I do the build I was going to do or would you rather see the ugliest optimization possible?

 

[Savage Wombat]

I'm working right now but ill post a build and explanation in a few hours. Question is, should I do the build I was going to do or would you rather see the ugliest optimization possible?

I vote ugliest. Redlining a system gets the point across.

 

[Jacob Marley]

No I'm not running this game, I am just feeling sorry for the guy who is.

Now that the mythic rules are officially in play in Wrath of the Righteous and the splat is fully on, I am quietly waiting for the whole concept to crash our tabletop game to the ground.

I'm pushing for DnD Next but the group are turning into total pathfinder fanboys so I must break them.

I've hated PF for a while now due to the sheer volume of just useless garbage they produce. I really want to play dnd next ASAP. I think I will just play my character to the hilt and hope the DM figures out that this will eventually be a problem on his own.

Rather than being passive-aggressive and intentionally destroying the game -- a system that you know the rest of the table is enjoying -- would it not be more productive to have a conversation with your group about your dislike of Pathfinder and Mythic? Would it not be more honorable of you to withdraw yourself from the game if they want to continue it? Or, are you just venting?

 

[G3Geek]

If you're not enjoying the game as a player, I think it's more important that you discuss this with your GM. One of the biggest struggles I've run into with gaming groups is players not communicating with their GMs when they're not feeling engaged with the story, whether it's feeling not challenged or not having their role-playing needs met. My two cents.

would it not be more productive to have a conversation with your group about your dislike of Pathfinder and Mythic? Would it not be more honorable of you to withdraw yourself from the game if they want to continue it? Or, are you just venting?

I'm agreeing with this. The first rule of "there's a problem in an RPG" is talk to everybody involved. All too often the problem can be talked out and then everybody can get back to having fun.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Ok, so the Fighter's doing about a metric ton of damage.

And the problem is....?

 

[Necromancy]

On to the build! Keep in mind that I kinda threw this together so the feats/path powers etc aren't really in any specific order other than meeting prereqs and this isn't super optimized except for damage potential

Items to note from Two handed archetype and fighter abilities

Overhand Chop - Double strength damage on a single attack instead of 1.5
Weapon Training - +4 to hit +4 damage with 2 handed weapons
Greater Power Attack - Power Attack Bonus from 2 handed is now +100% instead of +50%
Devastating Blow - Single Attack at -5 to hit that is an automatic critical threat
Weapon Mastery - Critical hits auto confirm and increase critical multiplier by 1

[TABLE="width: 698"] [TR] [TD]Stats[/TD] [TD]STR[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="colspan: 2"]Race[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Human[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Base[/TD] [TD="align: right"]16[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="colspan: 2"]Class[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Fighter[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Racial[/TD] [TD="align: right"]2[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="colspan: 3"]Archetype[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Two Handed Warrior[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Level[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="colspan: 3"]Mythic Path[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Champion[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Inherent[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Enhancement[/TD] [TD="align: right"]6[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Mythic[/TD] [TD="align: right"]12[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
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[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Total[/TD] [TD="align: right"]46[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
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[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Level[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Weapon Focus[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Power Attack[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Furious Focus[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Cleave[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]3[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Cleaving Finish[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]4[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Weapon Specialization[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]5[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Blind-Fight[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]6[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Vital Strike[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]7[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Combat Reflexes[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]8[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Improved Critical[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]9[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Iron Will[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]10[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Greater Weapon Focus[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]11[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Improved Vital Strike[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]12[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Greater Weapon Specialization[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]13[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Dreadful Carnage[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]14[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Intimidating Prowess[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]15[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Pin Down[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]16[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Greater Vital Strike[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]17[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Improved Blind-Fight[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]18[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Greater Blind-Fight[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]19[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Improved Overrun[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]20[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Greater Overrun[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Mythic
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="colspan: 2"]Path Powers[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Mythic Feats[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Level
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1
[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Impossible Speed[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Vital Strike[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Pierce the Darkness[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]3[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Enhanced Ability STR[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Power Attack[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]4[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Destroyer[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]5[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Maneuver Expert[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Weapon Focus[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]6[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Titans Rage[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]7[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Sweeping Strike[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Weapon Specialization[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]8[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Mythic Feat[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Dreadful Carnage[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]9[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Mythic Feat[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Combat Reflexes/Iron Will[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]10[/TD] [TD="colspan: 6"]Mythic Feat[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Improved Critical[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
Ok so lets max out critical multiplier to x6 ( Pick - 1d8 x4 crit, mythic imp crit, and fighter weapon mastery)

One handed mythic power attack is -6 to hit, +18 to damage. Greater power attack makes this -6 to hit, +36 to damage for a two handed weapon and furious focus makes it -0 to hit. Also take note that mythic power attack doubles damage bonus BEFORE the multiplier

Overhand Chop doubles strength damage on single attacks so that's +36 damage

Vital strike lets you do your 4 swings worth of damage in one single swing, mythic vital strike multiplies all bonuses as well

The plan is to use vital strike instead of full attack, you concentrate on single standard action attacks and do a full 4 times damage when you hit

[TABLE="width: 297"] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]To Hit[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Damage[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BAB[/TD] [TD="align: right"]20[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]STR[/TD] [TD="align: right"]18[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]36[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Fighter Bonus[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Feats[/TD] [TD="align: right"]2[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Mythic Feats[/TD] [TD="align: right"]2[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Weapon Bonus[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Power Atk[/TD] [TD="align: right"]0[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]36[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]51[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD="align: right"]90
[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
So thats a standard action to attack at +51 to hit and you do 4d8 + 360
Amazing Initiative allows you to spend a surge to get another standard, so you can do this twice a round.

Now if that's not bad enough for you......

Devastating Blow -you roll to hit at +46 and it's an automatic critical threat, except now you automatically confirm critical hits. Power attack damage doubles pre crit to 72 and..... I'll say the Str is doubled even though that's a bit murky. even if not it's negligible. So the damage for this single hit would be ....

[TABLE="width: 169"] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Damage[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]STR[/TD] [TD="align: right"]36[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Fighter Bonus[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Feats[/TD] [TD="align: right"]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Mythic Feats[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Weapon Bonus[/TD] [TD="align: right"]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Power Atk[/TD] [TD="align: right"]72[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Total[/TD] [TD="align: right"]126[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Crit x6[/TD] [TD="align: right"]756[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
So thats 6d6 +756 damage for a standard action
And again, we can do this twice a round by spending a surge

 

[Necromancy]

I'm agreeing with this. The first rule of "there's a problem in an RPG" is talk to everybody involved. All too often the problem can be talked out and then everybody can get back to having fun.

Yeah this was tried already, this is how that conversation went

My email - The problem lies is the way fighter and mythic mesh, it causes an exponential power increase. I think it will be better for everyone if we just nix a few things now rather than discover the problem later and have to rebuild. I will explain the problem to everyone when I get home

Reply Email from DM - There's really nothing to fix, no problems with the mythic system as far as I'm concerned as a DM. I've read and reread the books and I'm comfortable with any combination or feats or styles anyone comes up and wants to play. I appreciate you looking out, but we're going to keep everything as is.

 

[DMZ2112]

Yeah this was tried already, this is how that conversation went

My email - The problem lies is the way fighter and mythic mesh, it causes an exponential power increase. I think it will be better for everyone if we just nix a few things now rather than discover the problem later and have to rebuild. I will explain the problem to everyone when I get home

Reply Email from DM - There's really nothing to fix, no problems with the mythic system as far as I'm concerned as a DM. I've read and reread the books and I'm comfortable with any combination or feats or styles anyone comes up and wants to play. I appreciate you looking out, but we're going to keep everything as is.

You: "I have some legitimate concerns!"

Fake DM: "Nonsense, how could anything go wrong when I'm being this blase about the incredibly fragile system I use to run my campaign? Please burn me to the ground."


I fail to see the problem here. Gentlemen, ignite your plasma casters.