D&D 5E D&D Next not planning to compete against Pathfinder, Splatbook Hints

[Wicht]

Personally, I'm thrilled, because this could mean the return of the official Dungeons and Dragons Woodburning Set!

I would buy one

 

[Remathilis]

Not before this Upton:
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Must spread some XP blah blah blah

 

[kettite]

This is similar to the line of reasoning Paul Levitz used for years to hide the fact that DC Comics was having it's butt handed to it in sales so the Powers-That-Be at Warner Brothers would not turn their heads toward the comics and lay down the hammer. "It's not the individual sales of the products that we, the game designers have designed, that matter. It's the health of the brand!" Which is swell if you've got a multi-million dollar movie franchise such as Batman behind it. I suppose this means that we'll be seeing some My Little Pony... in Ravenloft! episodes in an effort to show that the brand is able to generate meaningful revenue.

Is the implication that there is not enough money to be made in the tabletop roleplaying game publishing business to entice Hasbro to compete in it? Or is this a "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" tactic, to distract the CFO and risk management folks at Hasbro from poor sales?

 

[Fobok]

Is the implication that there is not enough money to be made in the tabletop roleplaying game publishing business to entice Hasbro to compete in it? Or is this a "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" tactic, to distract the CFO and risk management folks at Hasbro from poor sales?

I wouldn't say poor sales. Just, I'd say, poorer sales than the bean counters at Hasbro would like. If Wizards was still the size they were before Hasbro bought them, I doubt the 'brand' (besides licensing for videogames like Neverwinter, and the novels) would matter as much. However, with a huge corporation like Hasbro behind them, they need more than that.

It's just like Disney owning Marvel. If all Marvel was making was the comics, Disney likely wouldn't be happy at all. There's just not enough money in a single market for huge corporations to be happy, especially a market as small as tabletop games.

 

[Halivar]

I suppose this means that we'll be seeing some My Little Pony... in Ravenloft! episodes in an effort to show that the brand is able to generate meaningful revenue.

You're saying this like it isn't an amazingly stupendicular idea!

 

[Mistwell]

It certainly won't help with screenplays or game scripts

It definitely helps with game scripts. Take a look at the history of game script writers and rpg writers, and you will find a lot of overlap between the two. I'm actually surprised to hear people didn't know about this. It's been happening for a couple decades now. To a much lesser extend it even happened all the way back to the TSR days. It absolutely seems to help with game scripting.

and it obviously doesn't help with novel writing, much as it pains me to say so.

I never mentioned or implied novel writing, but even that there is evidence you are wrong. Several game authors have written successful books. Not all of them, but there is some overlap there as well.

I think Hasbro understands that the tabletop game is the core of the brand, at least for now.

How many press releases and interviews and articles and speeches will it take for them to convince you that is not what they think? How many times do they have to mention brand and cross platform and multimedia and all entertainment for it to sink in that they mean it? It's one element, but the brand overall is the focus.

If they didn't they wouldn't have waited for two years while the new edition was playtested.

They are launching with the tabletop, but that does not mean the tabletop is the ongoing focus. Marvel launched with a new line of comics, but films was the real focus, and after that toys, and after than licensing, and then comics took a distant 4th place. The brand itself is the focus this time, with the tabletop game just one of many elements that make up that focus.

 

[Halivar]

It definitely helps with game scripts. Take a look at the history of game script writers and rpg writers, and you will find a lot of overlap between the two. I'm actually surprised to hear people didn't know about this.

Marvel movies are a perfect example. Joss Whedon, Ed Brubaker, Joe Quesada, yada, yada, yada. The comic writers are writing the movies, too.

 

[Mistwell]

I am not sure this panel amounts to much when it comes to D&D Next. While Mike Mearls may not be concerned with topping the charts he is ultimately beholden to forces higher up in the company than him. If the suits demand the first spot in the chart, he has to try and go for it.

From what we've heard over the years, Hasbro itself has NEVER been concerned about that publishing chart. They've always been concerned with overall revenue and profits. The ICv2 chart is actually a relatively obscure thing, and from Hasbro's perspective it's almost certainly meaningless. It's not like a bestseller chart or something - you cannot even use it to advertise your products. There is no inherent value to Hasbro to topping that obscure chart - it's not a money generator itself, and it cannot be leveraged to generate money either.

Mearls is a smart guy, but the real question boils down to how much the businessmen are on board with his philosophy.

LOL this is not Mearls' philosophy, this is what came FROM Hasbro. What he outlined is him following the recent Hasbro gaming study that gamers want to sit down and play, that they have less free time, that they play for shorter periods of time at one time, etc.. We went through that in a much older thread, and I even predicted at that time we'd be hearing something like this. It's definitely the opposite - focusing on the brand over the books is from the top, and focusing on faster game play and shorter game time to play is from the top.

Ultimately, Paizo has a distinct advantage in this area because it is a smaller company with a CEO who is immersed in the culture. "The sales charts don't matter as much as you think" can be hard sell to an outsider with big profit in his eyes.

It's not a "sales chart" though. It's a brick and mortar retail book chart. They have much MUCH better "sales charts" than this internally.

The whole "not planning to compete" is a stretch too. Many Pathfinder players are potential 5th edition players. There is a lot of overlap between customers.

They are competing, it's just not primarily over people buying RPG books. They are competing for all entertainment dollars, which is a much bigger sea of competition than Paizo. It's going to be for apps and video games and novels and lunch boxes and bedspreads and tv shows and movies and toys and collectibles and t-shirts and posters and mugs and Halloween costumes and everything under the sun. Sales of RPG books is just one very small component of that overall set of product sales. They don't care if they are #1 or #2 on that one item, if the overall brand does well for them.

The plan appears to be for the primary "D&D-customer" (as opposed to the "D&D RPG customer") to be the general 20-40something nostalgia nerd who has some awareness of D&D and might have played it once in the past (perhaps decades ago). The people who enjoy Big Bang Theory and Community and Hunger Games and World of Warcraft and The Room app and 80s throw-back T-shirts and Dr. Who and Game of Thrones and Superheroes, etc.. THAT is their primary customer. Just like that is the typical customer for Marvel. They will still sell RPG books to players of the game, just as Marvel still sells comic books to readers of comics. But it's no longer the driving force behind their sales - general sales to the much larger nostalgia nerd population (mostly through licensing) is the driving force behind their sales. At least, that seems to be the plan.

 

[an_idol_mind]

If the suits demand the first spot in the chart, he has to try and go for it. Mearls is a smart guy, but the real question boils down to how much the businessmen are on board with his philosophy.

I think the only folks obsessed with sales charts are a small portion of fans. As long as the game is hitting the profit goals, I have a hard time imagining that anybody at Hasbro would care if D&D places at #1 or #10. (Caveat: I do realize that the business world has some stupidly insane decision-makers who sometimes care more about their ego than actually doing their jobs.)

Likewise, I doubt that most gamers care where their game places on the sales charts. I don't care if Pathfinder is beating D&D, as long I continue to be able to purchase excellent material for Pathfinder.

The whole "not planning to compete" is a stretch too. Many Pathfinder players are potential 5th edition players. There is a lot of overlap between customers.

From what I've seen of D&D 5th edition so far, it looks much more compatible with Pathfinder than the previous edition. If that holds true, I would think that a lot of D&D players will be buying Pathfinder stuff and a lot of Pathfinder players will be buying D&D stuff. That would mean that the competition becomes less, "Try to get people to play using these rules" and more, "Try to put out high-quality adventures/supplements/fiction that everybody will want to buy."

 

[the Jester]

I think we will see both magazines ongoing...

MAYBE e-versions. I seriously doubt whether we'll actually see magazines, per se- the printed type- come again. God, I pine for the days when I could put a less-than-six-years-old Dragon or Dungeon in my bathroom for reading material!