A readied action leading to going twice in a row?

[TerraDave]

I am stuck on something very basic...

PCs are fighting 1 gargoyle. Its made itself rock-like. They ready attacks for when it de-rocks and attacks. Say it goes ahead, attacks, then they attack.

Now "When the creature finishes the readied action, its place in the initiative order moves to directly before the creature or the event that triggered the readied action."

So does this mean they go again?

 

[Nine Hands]

Sounds like they would since there is only one enemy. If they all ready actions and all take that readied action at the same time, then they are moved to the initiative slot before creature or action that triggered it.

So it may have been...

Gargoyle
Cleric
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard

After the readied action its...

Cleric
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Gargoyle

 

[TerraDave]

I guess thats right.

The implication that they can delay and then "bunch" there actions is a little off putting.

 

[Umbran]

I guess thats right.

The implication that they can delay and then "bunch" there actions is a little off putting.

But that's much of the point of readying or delaying actions.

Consider that there actually isn't much difference. If you have an initiative order

PC1
PC2
Monster
PC3
PC4

Now iterate that:
PC1
PC2
Monster
PC3
PC4
(new round)
PC1
PC2
Monster
PC3
PC4

Only at the beginning and end are the PCs *not* bunched up. If you do round-by-round initiative, on average, you'll still get the same thing. You'll get four PC actions, then the monster. Or the monster, then 4 PC actions.

 

[tomBitonti]

This may be different in 4E; this is my understanding from 3E:

They are not really going twice in a row. They have their action, in effect, split between an initial step and a final step.

<round>@<initiative number>: <actor> <action>

Case 1, no readied actions:

1@17: PC1 acts
1@12: PC2 acts
1@5: G acts

2@17: PC1 acts
2@12: PC2 acts
2@5: G acts

Case 2, with readied actions:

1@17 PC1 readies
1@12 PC2 readies
1@5 G starts to act
1@6 PC1 acts
1@6 PC2 acts
1@5 G acts

2@6 PC1 acts
2@6 PC2 acts
2@5 G acts

While PC1 and PC2 appear to have acted twice in round 1, they haven't: They are completing the action they started earlier in the round. In no case do they get to do more in the two parts of their action than they did originally.

Readied actions are strictly a loss (or the same) compared to regular actions: Nothing more can be done, and one's initiative drops. (If the trigger action is immediately following the ready declaration, the readied action turns out to be no different than a non-readied action.) And, if the trigger does not occur, the action is lost.

Thx!

TomB

 

[CM]

For this example I'm using the "Gargoyle Rake" which has the stone form ability which it can end as a minor action.

1. Alice and Bob are readying an attack for when the gargoyle ends its stone form. Their readied action is an immediate reaction to the triggering event.
2. When the gargoyle's turn starts, it ends stone form (a minor action), and Alice and Bob take their readied actions. They then move their initiative to immediately before the gargoyle.
3. If it's still alive, the gargoyle then completes the rest of its turn (standard and move actions).
4. Alice and Bob act at their new initiative.
5. Repeat gargoyle's turn, etc.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

They are not really going twice in a row. They have their action, in effect, split between an initial step and a final step.
[...]
Readied actions are strictly a loss (or the same) compared to regular actions: Nothing more can be done, and one's initiative drops. (If the trigger action is immediately following the ready declaration, the readied action turns out to be no different than a non-readied action.) And, if the trigger does not occur, the action is lost.

All technically true, but specific timing can be very important. By readying an action, you get to take both the readied action and your next-turn action without giving an opponent the chance to respond. If you had taken that action on your original initiative, the enemy would be able to heal or run away or otherwise use the result of your action to inform its decision.

However - and I am also answering based on 3.5 rules, so I hope someone more familiar with 4E can correct if it's no longer the case - the specific example given here would not work for a readied action. Because a readied action resolves before the action which triggers it, readying an action for when the gargoyle turns back from stone would mean that it's still stone as of the point you make your attack. It's the same reason why you can't use the provoked attack from a prone opponent standing up in order to trip that opponent again - at the time you make your opportunity attack, the enemy is still prone.

 

[Campbell]

All technically true, but specific timing can be very important. By readying an action, you get to take both the readied action and your next-turn action without giving an opponent the chance to respond. If you had taken that action on your original initiative, the enemy would be able to heal or run away or otherwise use the result of your action to inform its decision.

However - and I am also answering based on 3.5 rules, so I hope someone more familiar with 4E can correct if it's no longer the case - the specific example given here would not work for a readied action. Because a readied action resolves before the action which triggers it, readying an action for when the gargoyle turns back from stone would mean that it's still stone as of the point you make your attack. It's the same reason why you can't use the provoked attack from a prone opponent standing up in order to trip that opponent again - at the time you make your opportunity attack, the enemy is still prone.

In 4e readied actions are immediate reactions, which means they count as your immediate action for the round and occur after the triggering condition.

 

[TerraDave]

Everyone: thanks!

 

[I'm A Banana]

We hates initiative bunching, my precious, we hates it and we wants to choke it in its sleepies.

I'm not a big meta-game dude, but alternating initiative, meta as it is, is a much more delightful flow for me.