D&D 5E Street date for D&D Next Starter Game is July 15

Because one is false and the other is true. The sample size is statistically significant; and a company selling a thing isn't in the business of placating people.

Forgive me, Morrus, as I suspect you won't disagree with what I'm going to say. But I'm a nerd. And perhaps to help clarify the conversation for others:

Sample sizes aren't in and of themselves statistically significant. The question is whether the sample size is large enough to give a statistically meaningful result, which is I'm sure what you mean. So I suspect what you are saying is that EnWorld has a large enough active forum membership to theoretically provide a large enough sample size to do meaningful tests of the population as a whole. I'm sure that's true.

But, as you pointed out, whether results from a messageboard are meaningful for the inferences WotC would presumably want (i.e., their consumer base as a whole) is a much more difficult question.

1) Active participants on a messageboard my not be a representative sample. I would hypothesize that this is likely the case-- though only a proper study involving a wider consumer base could verify this. But if it isn't representative, then others here might well be right that responses here aren't meaningful for WotC in determining their strategy (and I know you made this point in your first post).

2) Even if the active population as a whole is large enough for a meaningful sample, the participants in a given thread might not be. If it truly is 50 posters, then the chances of that sample being a good one drop considerably, especially given the added self-selection.

3) For survey results (though I'm not an expert on these), I suspect the way the survey is conducted is critically important for the reliability of the results. The back and forth of a messageboard threads, I suspect, is not an environment to get reliable results.

But it strikes me that the argument is conflating two points-- 1) Can we get a good representation of how consumers will react from the messageboard; and 2) Is it important that information is making its way to this part of the community without proper PR massaging.

The only relationship between those questions is whether the messageboard community is representative of the community as a whole in two respects:

1) Is the wider consumer base also consuming this information?
2) If so, are they reacting the same way if they do?

Neither question is answerable without data. But as to #1-- It's a hypothesis, and I don't have any data to back it. But I very much doubt most potential D&D buyers are paying much attention to the occasional leak on B&N or from thalmin. If I'm right, then the argument that WotC has no incentive to actively control it is sound. Heck, they might have a disincentive, since it might compromise their overall strategy. Sure, it'd be nice if they had control over every piece of info that comes out. Maybe they should. But maybe it doesn't matter at this scale.

Anyway, my apologies for the wall of text. They are the sad musings of an obsessive data nerd.

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p.s. hours later, I read this and can't believe I wrote this whole thing in a thread about release dates. Yikes. I leave it only because I haven't the heart to delete my longest post ever.
 
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Wait didn't the 4e redbox have chargen? Sort of a solo adventure then a group adventure etc etc. The starter set from 2008 did *not* I know that much. It may have been abbreviated but there was something there as I recall.

Honestly, I'd prefer that such a starter set emulate the 81 Moldvay basic set more than the Mentzer one; i like them both, but half the page count of the 83 basic is useless after using once. And having a whole adventure in the kit would be a plus in my mind.

Yes, it had character creation rules for Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Mage; for levels 1-2. Very limited options of course, but that was expected. As was that in order to progress to Level 3, it tells you that you now have to use the Essentials Player's Books.

That was fine.

However, one of the very first pages for the Player's books is a little blurb stating that if you are coming from the Redbox, you now have to scrap the character you just made there and COMPLETELY recreate the character using the Player's Books as the two are not compatible and will not work with the rest of the game.

If that wasn't a slap to new players... I don't know what is...

It was sad... And I just hope beyond hope that WoTC doesn't continue the trend...
 

However, one of the very first pages for the Player's books is a little blurb stating that if you are coming from the Redbox, you now have to scrap the character you just made there and COMPLETELY recreate the character using the Player's Books as the two are not compatible and will not work with the rest of the game.
If that wasn't a slap to new players... I don't know what is....


Oh wow, I had no idea. The red box was the only experiential contact I had with Essentials-era 4e. NEEDLESS to say (well, not really but we can hope, right?) repeating that particular mistake would be extraordinarily dumb on Wizards' part.
A starter set should be limited - it's a starter set after all - but having to retcon your character because you've hit level 3 or whatever is crap.
 

But WotC thinks us online folks matter, and that our opinions are relevant, even if you don't. That's what that enormous playtest process was all about.

No. The Playtest population is not the same as the population that posts to the message boards...any message board.

At best the message board population is a small percentage of the people who downloaded, played, and evaluated the Playtest.
 


And at the moment, no mention of release for the Monster Manual.
Hopefully, we will have more information soon. There will be a distributor open house next week, and we will be able to speak with WotC at that time. I expect we will get a lot more information then, if not before.
 

Yes, it had character creation rules for Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Mage; for levels 1-2. Very limited options of course, but that was expected. As was that in order to progress to Level 3, it tells you that you now have to use the Essentials Player's Books.

That was fine.

However, one of the very first pages for the Player's books is a little blurb stating that if you are coming from the Redbox, you now have to scrap the character you just made there and COMPLETELY recreate the character using the Player's Books as the two are not compatible and will not work with the rest of the game.

If that wasn't a slap to new players... I don't know what is...

It was sad... And I just hope beyond hope that WoTC doesn't continue the trend...

If WOTC do that after building such a starter-set friendly edition, I'll have to start believing every negative comment I've read about them - including the raving conspiracy theories. Nothing else would make sense.
 

Another thought: the next D&D Encounters season begins July 30 and hasn't been announced yet.

You're right. I mean, we know it'll be Tyranny of Dragons (the closing speech in Dead in Thay basically confirms it), but it hasn't actually been announced.

Cheers!
 

I'll offer a dissenting opinion regarding character creation in a starter set:
I don't think it belongs.

Character creation is one of the more intensive parts of the game. I think people should learn to play the game first and become comfortable with the rules. Then they can learn to make a character, and be able to make more informed decisions in the process.

I think the Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion Beginner Boxes by FFG are the new gold standard for how to do a starter box. Here's everything you need to start playing, literally within minutes, and set up to learn as you go. The characters are pregens, but you get to customize them as they gain experience. And both are followed up by FREE full-length downloadable adventures from their website.
 

I'll offer a dissenting opinion regarding character creation in a starter set:
I don't think it belongs.

Character creation is one of the more intensive parts of the game. I think people should learn to play the game first and become comfortable with the rules. Then they can learn to make a character, and be able to make more informed decisions in the process.

I think the Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion Beginner Boxes by FFG are the new gold standard for how to do a starter box. Here's everything you need to start playing, literally within minutes, and set up to learn as you go. The characters are pregens, but you get to customize them as they gain experience. And both are followed up by FREE full-length downloadable adventures from their website.
I can't disagree with anything you have said here.
 

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