D&D 5E The new Dungeons & Dragons Starter Set - and online tools?

[Mistwell]

To quote from just one source, crippleware is:

"software distributed with reduced functionality with a view to attracting payment for a fully functional version."

D&D isn't software, but we all know that. The starter set will be released with reduced functionality with a view to attracting payment for a fully functional version, though. That's the definition of crippleware in common parlance, regardless of what Mearls says.

If that were common parlance, than the PHB itself would be crippleware for almost all editions, as it doesn't have all the functionality of the expansion books, and it's sold with hopes you will buy those expansion books. In addition, it would mean ALL Basic/Starter sets, even the ones everyone agrees were not crippleware and are models of Basic/Starter sets, would also be crippleware. They all were sold without all the functionality of the main game, and with an eye towards getting you to buy the full version.

Instead, common parlance for that term, in context of RPGs, has been not replayable, and so reduced in functionality that you can only support a couple of sessions with it, and not even really compatible with the main version of the game. That's not the case with this version though - just as it was not the case with the original Basic edition that everyone praises as one of the best RPGs.

I think the bottom line is that people don't agree with your definition of crippleware in this context.

 

[Mistwell]

Pundit is wrong.

Who am I going to believe here - the guy who has actually seen it, or the guy who has never seen it and who routinely craps on anything 5e-related instinctually?

 

[Mistwell]

Yes, most starter sets for RPG projects are crippleware.

Crippleware isn't necessarily a pejorative term. The term comes from the software industry, where crippled products are common, and often free, or at a significantly reduced cost.

My objection is with Pundit claiming that the term "crippleware" doesn't fit. It does. Buying a crippled product may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the savings and the perspective of the person buying it. I don't buy crippleware in general, and certainly wouldn't at that price point, but evidently others will. There's nothing wrong with that.

First of all, even the software version of that word means its missing VITAL functions, which this is not.

Second, it IS intended as a pejorative - the wikipedia entry compares it to blackmail and describes it as derogatory.

Third, we all know YOU are intending it as a pejorative - you trash 5e on a daily basis here, who you trying to kid? Of course you think there is something wrong with it, you think there is something wrong with almost every aspect of 5e to date.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

First of all, even the software version of that word means its missing VITAL functions, which this is not.

Second, it IS intended as a pejorative - the wikipedia entry compares it to blackmail and describes it as derogatory.

Third, we all know YOU are intending it as a pejorative - you trash 5e on a daily basis here, who you trying to kid? Of course you think there is something wrong with it, you think there is something wrong with almost every aspect of 5e to date.

Character creation is a vital, basic function of RPGs.

It is not always used in a pejorative fashion. I was a programmer/developer for a decade before becoming a librarian (the 90s and early 2000s), and I wrote crippleware for clients. There were a lot of people in the industry who didn't care for the existence of crippleware, but that didn't make the term inherently pejorative. I don't buy crippleware, but that doesn't mean there aren't instances where it's useful (particularly when it is made available for free).

I find the very concept of a $20 rpg that isn't a full game to be ridiculous. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will view it that way, though.

I don't trash every aspect of 5e. I'm just not a starry-eyed fanboy type, and have enough experience with the publishing industry to know when to call BS on pricing and some other issues (like ill-conceived brand marketing). 5e itself may turn out to be a very good game, which would be a good thing. That doesn't mean you have to defend WotC on every decision they make, though.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

If that were common parlance, than the PHB itself would be crippleware for almost all editions, as it doesn't have all the functionality of the expansion books, and it's sold with hopes you will buy those expansion books. In addition, it would mean ALL Basic/Starter sets, even the ones everyone agrees were not crippleware and are models of Basic/Starter sets, would also be crippleware. They all were sold without all the functionality of the main game, and with an eye towards getting you to buy the full version.

My Moldvay edition of D&D wasn't crippled. It had enough rules to play all aspects of the game.

The PHB is part of a set, not a standalone product.

Character generation is an intrinsic part of a roleplaying game.

I think the bottom line is that people don't agree with your definition of crippleware in this context.

So far, only a few have actively indicated that they disagree.

Whether people agree or not is irrelevant, anyway.

 

[Mistwell]

Character creation is a vital, basic function of RPGs.

It's not. I sit down and start playing with pregen character all the time, often at conventions or game stores. There is nothing vital about making it yourself versus playing a pregen. The game is about playing it, not the stuff that happens before you play it. Shoot, most of the best 1e modules were played at conventions with just pre-gens - were they not playing D&D when they did that, because they had not gone through a "vital" step?

In addition, what part of "you will be able to make a character, from day one, for free" is unclear? It doesn't need to be in the starter set if you already have it. If they hand you, for example, a separate booklet at the cash register called the Adventurers Players Guide that, for free, with chargen rules in it, the it's obviously NOT vital for the starter set to have it as well.

It is not always used in a pejorative fashion.

In this context, it is. And, coming from you, it was.

 

[Mistwell]

My Moldvay edition of D&D wasn't crippled. It had enough rules to play all aspects of the game.

It was intended to get you to buy the full set of books, AND IT SAID RIGHT IN THE BOOK THAT WAS ITS PURPOSE. It's only levels 1-3 (less than this starter set) and had NO wilderness rules at all. Your own definition says if the intent is to get you to buy the full version, it's crippleware.

The PHB is part of a set, not a standalone product.

I said the expansion books. It's intended that you buy the Book of Elvish Thieves Whatever books once you buy the player's handbook. You cannot use the full options of the game unless you buy that additional book.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

It's not. I sit down and start playing with pregen character all the time, often at conventions or game stores. There is nothing vital about making it yourself versus playing a pregen. The game is about playing it, not the stuff that happens before you play it. Shoot, most of the best 1e modules were played at conventions with just pre-gens - were they not playing D&D when they did that, because they had not gone through a "vital" step?

What if they left combat out of the set altogether? Magic? That's less important to some people than character generation. You can easily play an entire multi-year campaign with no combat at all. Does that mean it isn't a vital thing?

I don't expect everybody to follow my advice, because it isn't advice at all. It's just a statement about how I see the product's pricing and the likelihood that it's going to have the effect that WotC hopes it will.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

It was intended to get you to buy the full set of books, AND IT SAID RIGHT IN THE BOOK THAT WAS ITS PURPOSE. It's only levels 1-3 (less than this starter set) and had NO wilderness rules at all. Your own definition says if the intent is to get you to buy the full version, it's crippleware.

It had all the basics in it - chargen, magic, and ways to measure the success of an action. The 5e starter set doesn't. We played characters for several levels above the 3rd with the Moldvay edition. There's nothing to keep anyone from doing that.

From my perspective, if they put chargen in the 5e starter set, it's not crippleware. Leave it out, and it is.

 

[Mistwell]

What if they left combat out of the set altogether? Magic? That's less important to some people than character generation. You can easily play an entire multi-year campaign with no combat at all. Does that mean it isn't a vital thing?

You dodged my question. I will ask you again - if chargen is a vital function, then how can convention games and gamestore games exist with pregens? How did all those great 1e modules every get played, if they couldn't play without chargen because it's vital to the game?

In addition, if chargen is available for free to everyone, how is it vital to the starter set?

Answer the questions - they go to the heart of your objection.