D&D 5E Starter Set: Excerpt 3 (actual)

[Li Shenron]

I'm playing a Dead in Thay game with a Cleric who has guidance. Not actually as handy as it seems. Sure, you get a +1d4 every now and then--but it's only one character at a time, and you have to touch them. Its main purpose in our game is to let the Cleric player ham it up about his deity a few times per session (and the rest of the party make fun of him when the check fails anyway).

Still, it's an unlimited resource (no cost) without a drawback.

A limitation ("only one target at a time") is not the same as a drawback.

No cost and no drawback means you should always use it. There is no choice. And to me, no choice is bad.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Still, it's an unlimited resource (no cost) without a drawback.

A limitation ("only one target at a time") is not the same as a drawback.

No cost and no drawback means you should always use it. There is no choice. And to me, no choice is bad.

I dunno; there's no cost or drawback to checking for traps, or listening at doors. If there are people near you while you're attempting an action, there's no cost or drawback to them using the "help" action.

 

[Li Shenron]

I dunno; there's no cost or drawback to checking for traps, or listening at doors. If there are people near you while you're attempting an action, there's no cost or drawback to them using the "help" action.

If fact the "help" action itself is terribly boring if used every time you can. It's weird, but the only reason why this doesn't happen seems to be that players constantly forget about the existence of this action in the first place ("Aid another" in 3e). I wouldn't be happy if the Cleric used Guidance at every check, and I wouldn't be happy either if the Cleric forgot she has Guidance.

And as for comparing with bare checks, I am strongly in favor of a "no retry" policy, exactly because if you can keep trying then you have no choice i.e. you must keep trying.

 

[Kobold Stew]

If fact the "help" action itself is terribly boring if used every time you can. It's weird, but the only reason why this doesn't happen seems to be that players constantly forget about the existence of this action in the first place ("Aid another" in 3e). I wouldn't be happy if the Cleric used Guidance at every check, and I wouldn't be happy either if the Cleric forgot she has Guidance.

And as for comparing with bare checks, I am strongly in favor of a "no retry" policy, exactly because if you can keep trying then you have no choice i.e. you must keep trying.

There is a cost to Guidance, but it's a marginal one: the Cleric needs to choose that cantrip among the three that she can cast. That's probably not enough.

I agree that it should be used more than it is, but some curbs are appropriate. The mechanical check you suggest (no retries) is, I think, an obvious solution. I am also partial to an RP curb, not for the cleric (for whom the religious schtick is to be assumed, but for the recipient of the spell -- make him say "Guide me, Yondalla" or whatever -- people are proud, and it would certainly help curb excesses at my table.

 

[jadrax]

Spare the dying is probably very different or removed from game. It was to powerful for a cantrip, with a cleric next to you there was no real penalty for dropping to 0 h.p.

I would guess that Revivify has taken that functionality (and moved it to a level 3 spell).

 

[Li Shenron]

There is a cost to Guidance, but it's a marginal one: the Cleric needs to choose that cantrip among the three that she can cast. That's probably not enough.

Good point. I'd say it's an important cost, so let's rephrase my issues with Guidance: it has a strategic cost, but it doesn't have a tactical cost.

There are other things in the game that have (or could have had) no tactical cost. I'm not sure right now for example if Mage Armor can be cast as a ritual: if it can, then it has a strategic cost (learning the spell instead of learning another) but no tactical cost (no daily slot used) or a normally irrelevant tactical cost (the time to cast). I would have few problems with that.

Still, the case of Guidance just strikes me as wrong... everyone is going to get that +1d4 every time. Out of combat of course, and only when you have time to cast it before the check, but it's still a lot of occurrences. I don't like the idea of playing a game where the Cleric's player continually says "I cast Guidance, I cast Guidance, I cast Guidance..." because it's free, and neither I'd like to make it automatic.

I agree that it should be used more than it is, but some curbs are appropriate. The mechanical check you suggest (no retries) is, I think, an obvious solution. I am also partial to an RP curb, not for the cleric (for whom the religious schtick is to be assumed, but for the recipient of the spell -- make him say "Guide me, Yondalla" or whatever -- people are proud, and it would certainly help curb excesses at my table.

A RP-type of requirement is a very nice idea. I was thinking about making guidance applicable to tasks that are directly linked to the deity's portfolio/dogmas, but I can't figure out how to do that sensibly... Saying "we're on a mission for Tyr" is not specific enough to get Guidance from a Cleric of Tyr, because it would once again apply to every check. But how do you link checks with the ideals of "justice" or "law"? There is the opposite risk that it will rarely apply at all.

(Of course the solution of the problem would be very simple: make guidance a 1st level spell, eventually increasing the bonus if too low. But that solution is botched already)

 

[Kobold Stew]

Good point. I'd say it's an important cost, so let's rephrase my issues with Guidance: it has a strategic cost, but it doesn't have a tactical cost.

Good distinction.

 

[Ichneumon]

Guidance's presence shouldn't obscure an important fact - we haven't seen the latest spell description. They may have changed it to something that makes the cleric less of a walking free skill bonus.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Happy with reduce base Spell DC.



Looks like there's no Spare The Dying in the D&D Starter Set...

 

[Thaumaturge]

Starter Set: Excerpt 3

I've been handing out xp like cheap Halloween candy, but I still can't xp you again yet.

As far as guidance goes, if it's unchanged, why not add that it's only good once per check or once per short rest? Gods don't like to be pestered.

Thaumaturge.

Anyone have a spare Tootsie roll?