Okay...except that he'd only be getting to level 3 slots in round 9. Against our longsword-wielding fighter friend, the wizard can spend round 1 flying up into the air, round 2 and 3 casting Disintergrate--with the first one maxed out for 100 damage against our fighter's -1 or +2 dex save--and then on round 4 drop power word kill.
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D&D 5E Pimp Slapping the Wizard!: A little math
- Thread starter Stalker0
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Okay...except that he'd only be getting to level 3 slots in round 9. Against our longsword-wielding fighter friend, the wizard can spend round 1 flying up into the air, round 2 and 3 casting Disintergrate--with the first one maxed out for 100 damage against our fighter's -1 or +2 dex save--and then on round 4 drop power word kill.
Thaumaturge
Wandering. Not lost. (He/they)
Copy and paste works with the "printer friendly" version. I just checked.
Thaumaturge.
Thaumaturge.
That longsword-wielding fighter could drop* his longsword, draw a bow and quite possibly disrupt the concentration on the fly spell so the wizardfalls down. On round two, the fighter then drops his bow and pick up the longsword, moves over to the wizard and slaps him silly.
*The rules mentions that you can interact with one object for free, but you need to use a second action if you want to interact with a second object. I am assuming that dropping an item isn't interaction. It has some consequences like if you want to use your bow again in the example above, you need to run over to your bow to pick it up again.
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AC 21 isn't unhittable. Hell, if you're fighting a level 20 wizard, a fighter could be expected to have a minimum of +11 to hit, +13 if they're an archer. With four attacks (as expected at level 20), anyone with the Archer fighting style would be expected to hit more that twice in a normal round. Since Fly is a Concentration spell, that's two checks for the Wizard to lose their ability to fly. A non-Archer can probably throw a weapon and hit the Wizard.
Once they're on the ground, use the Shove attack to knock them prone, then gather around to beat them into the ground with Advantage.
Edited to add:
It seems that people are investing in the idea that a 20th level Wizard is the same sort of unkillable engine of destruction they were in 3e. This really doesn't seem to be the case. Yes, Shield is good. Yes, four uses of it are a good thing for a L20 Wizard. However, it's just not that powerful. A party that's at L20 themselves will have many ways to deal with a lone 20th-level spellcaster and some lower-level grunts.
If the party is fighting an entire group of L20 PCs or NPCs? Then there's a damn good chance that whichever group is freshest will win, and that's entirely expected.
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The opportunity cost of a 1st level spell slot is basically nil. I was replying to the supposition that a 20th level wizard is unbeatable because they can burn through every spell slot they have to remain at AC21ish for an entire fight.
You're right, Otto's Irresistable Dance is much more effective.
Gives the Fighter Disadvantage on every attack. Assuming a dex of 14, that's +8 vs an AC of 21, hits 20% of the time. On a hit, deal 1d8+2 damage, so the concentration check is always going to be against a DC of 10. Our 16 con wizard can pass that 70% of the time, so it'll take an average of about 7 attacks to break the wizard's concentration, at which point he can cast it again. Alternatively, the fighter can spend his Action trying to throw off the dance. But since it's DC 19 against his non-proficient wis saves, even Indomitable isn't going to be much help there.
All that aside, class pvp isn't really the best way to look at game balance. More prudent to ask is which is more effective against a goblin horde? 8 attacks or a meteor swarm? Which is more effective against a Balor? 8 attacks or a crippling debuff? Which is more effective at getting the party out of the imminently exploding volcano? 8 attacks or teleport? Which is more effective at communicating with the mysterious fae race you just encountered? 8 attacks or comprehend languages? Which is more effective at unlocking the ancient and sealed chest of ultimate power which is forged from unbreakablinium? 8 attacks or Knock?
And so on.
Gives the Fighter Disadvantage on every attack. Assuming a dex of 14, that's +8 vs an AC of 21, hits 20% of the time. On a hit, deal 1d8+2 damage, so the concentration check is always going to be against a DC of 10. Our 16 con wizard can pass that 70% of the time, so it'll take an average of about 7 attacks to break the wizard's concentration, at which point he can cast it again. Alternatively, the fighter can spend his Action trying to throw off the dance. But since it's DC 19 against his non-proficient wis saves, even Indomitable isn't going to be much help there.
All that aside, class pvp isn't really the best way to look at game balance. More prudent to ask is which is more effective against a goblin horde? 8 attacks or a meteor swarm? Which is more effective against a Balor? 8 attacks or a crippling debuff? Which is more effective at getting the party out of the imminently exploding volcano? 8 attacks or teleport? Which is more effective at communicating with the mysterious fae race you just encountered? 8 attacks or comprehend languages? Which is more effective at unlocking the ancient and sealed chest of ultimate power which is forged from unbreakablinium? 8 attacks or Knock?
And so on.
Shove doesn't require an attack roll. You forego one attack, instead initiating a Strength[Athletics] check against the target's Strength[Athletics] or Dexterity[Acrobatics]. Shield does absolutely nothing to it.
Ruin Explorer
Legend
Thaumaturge
Wandering. Not lost. (He/they)
I pointed this out some time ago... < weeps >
Does anyone hear anything?
Thaumaturge.
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