D&D 5E Pimp Slapping the Wizard!: A little math

[Ruin Explorer]

By level 20, they effectively have advantage on all saves three times. Given that all of the old save-or-die spells I've seen have a save every round now, that will help enforce a maximum duration for any mind control spell.

That's a different thread, but no - Fighters can expect to have between 5 and 35% chance to make a WIS save at that level, assuming enemy caster stat cap of 20. Even at 35%, which assumes a FTR with 20 WIS (!!!), Advantage means you still are quite likely to fail (30%, I believe). With a more likely 14 WIS, and thus only a 20% chance, you probably still fail, even with Advantage. WIS 10 has only a 10% chance.

Note that all the "better" CC spells do NOT do what you describe. Dominate Person is save at start, no others (have to hope friends break caster's Concentration, whilst you hit them in the face), for example.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Oh goodness, I forgot about Spell Mastery. Yes, Shield is a top choice for it, no doubt.

Oh, wow, damn, that is a good choice.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It is a cool spring evening. The moon shines brightly in the sky above. In a meadow, apparently lost in thought, stands a wizard. There is a gently blowing breeze carrying the scent of honeysuckle across the countryside.

Approaching the wizard quietly from behind are a trio of adolescent fighters. Two of the fighters are experienced in this strange sport. The third fighter is about to receive his initiation on this fine evening. Wizard tipping was considered the ultimate test of a warrior.

I love that this game hasn't even been out for a week and we already have a debate about the finer points of wizard tipping.

 

[CM]

Copy and paste works with the "printer friendly" version. I just checked.

Thaumaturge.

Glad for that. I was quite perturbed I couldn't copy/paste class features onto my character sheet.

 

[Abstruse]

[D][/D]

Oh, wow, damn, that is a good choice.

Shield isn't quite as good as a choice as you'd think for Arcane Mastery. Sure, you get immunity to Magic Missile and +5 AC until your next turn, but it uses your reaction for the turn as well. There may be better uses for your reaction at higher levels, depending on what feats and spells do.

 

[Obryn]

Shield isn't quite as good as a choice as you'd think for Arcane Mastery. Sure, you get immunity to Magic Missile and +5 AC until your next turn, but it uses your reaction for the turn as well. There may be better uses for your reaction at higher levels, depending on what feats and spells do.

Yeah, there might be, but it's a better Reaction than I think most classes get. And with its restriction about casting at higher levels, it looks like a winner at 1st.

You can always trade it out, too.

 

[CM]

I love that this game hasn't even been out for a week and we already have a debate about the finer points of wizard tipping.

I'm glad that the game supports what should be a common-sense means of beating somebody up - knocking them down then going to town on them.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Bigby's Pimp Slap definitely needs to be a 5E wizard spell.

 

[Stalker0]

So this thread has spurned some interesting debate!


Just wanted to clarify a few things:

1) The purpose of this thread wasn't to point out a Fighter's dominance of a Wizard or anything of the sort. It was to highlight how effective one of the Fighter's new tricks can be. As for the fighter's attack, shove or no shove you aren't going to take the wizard out in one round, the fighter just can't do enough damage shield or no shield.

2) I've had people frequently question the dex score of Wizards I've used. So lets see what makes the most sense.

I will use a human wizard as the baseline. If I go with the standard scores of 15,14,13,12,10,8

8 (9) str
13 (14) dex
14 (15) con
15 (16) Int
12 (13) Wis
10 (11) Cha

I personally think most wizards will bump their Int and Con scores. Int of course, and then Con has some of the biggest bang for the buck, it increase their hitpoints by percentage more than other classes...and help them absorb the damage of both blade and spell. But the argument could be made for some dex, so I will spread the love around a bit.

The wizards gets a total of +10 ability points to gain by 20th level. I will put 4 in int, 3 in con, 2 in dex, 1 in wis.

So my final wizard has:

Str: 9
Dex: 16
Con: 18
Int: 20
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

So this seems like a reasonable baseline to make our assertions.

 

[n00bdragon]

How many wizards is a level 20 fighter really going to attack? Maybe a wizard BBEG or something, but I would expect him to spend far more time fighting tarrasques and balors and whatever other unimaginable horrors come with more than 15 hit dice.

This whole thought experiment has the feel of "What if the fighter was attacking a combat dummy?" Sure, when attacking a combat dummy it might be more profitable to knock it down first, but considering that the average thing a fighter attacks probably has more defenses and dexterity than a combat dummy (or a wizard) wouldn't it be better to be trying out this knockdown math on a level appropriate enemy? Try the math on a Balor and see how it comes out.