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D&D 5E The Multiverse is back....

Remathilis

Legend
I think there's a bigger reason for the multiverse then just 2e nostalgia or finding a way to bring all campaigns together. Brand Identity - Just like the references to Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk and Dragonlance in the Basic Rulebook. The quotes from the novels as well. Everything is there to remind people *this* is Dungeons & Dragons. It's history, it's worlds, it's heroes and villains. With Pathfinder and a slew of other retro-clones out there, D&D's history and IP are something no one else can claim and use in their products. It's one of D&D biggest strengths and WoTC is capitalizing on it. As they should.

4e tried a similar approach to this, but rather than talk about "the worlds of D&D", they strip-mined the best things out of each of them and used it to create Nerath/Nentir Vale. While it was interesting to have a D&D world with the Tomb of Horrors, Isle of Dread, Castle Ravenloft, Soth's Charge, Sigil, Pelor, and Bane all hanging around, I much prefer them in their proper places so we could enjoy the worlds in their proper context.

That said, the references so far seem a little heavy on the Heroes of the Lance/Icewind Dale side. I hope I get to see some references to OTHER D&D worlds when the novels are referenced: Baker's Schema trilogy, I Strahd, Azure Bonds, etc.
 

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Nebulous

Legend
I think there's a bigger reason for the multiverse then just 2e nostalgia or finding a way to bring all campaigns together. Brand Identity - Just like the references to Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk and Dragonlance in the Basic Rulebook. The quotes from the novels as well. Everything is there to remind people *this* is Dungeons & Dragons. It's history, it's worlds, it's heroes and villains. With Pathfinder and a slew of other retro-clones out there, D&D's history and IP are something no one else can claim and use in their products. It's one of D&D biggest strengths and WoTC is capitalizing on it. As they should.

Good point. You know what i want to see? 5th edition Dark Sun with Brom coming back as illustrator. I would explode from joy.
 


TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
4e tried a similar approach to this, but rather than talk about "the worlds of D&D", they strip-mined the best things out of each of them and used it to create Nerath/Nentir Vale. While it was interesting to have a D&D world with the Tomb of Horrors, Isle of Dread, Castle Ravenloft, Soth's Charge, Sigil, Pelor, and Bane all hanging around, I much prefer them in their proper places so we could enjoy the worlds in their proper context.

...

It never really reached critical mass...it was just a Vale after all.

4Es cosmology was actually pretty open, though not always presented that way. One real innovation was the feywild and shadowfell, it would be nice to see a nod to these.
 

One real innovation was the feywild and shadowfell, it would be nice to see a nod to these.
I completely agree. I wouldn't mind the elemental chaos making a comeback as well, perhaps as the place where elemental forces all bleed together before forming into the material plane. I honestly did find the elemental chaos to be a lot more interesting than the elemental planes of the Great Wheel, although the latter was certainly an evocative concept.
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
It never really reached critical mass...it was just a Vale after all.

4Es cosmology was actually pretty open, though not always presented that way. One real innovation was the feywild and shadowfell, it would be nice to see a nod to these.

I'm not sure that I'd necessarily call either one an innovation, but rather a focused expansion on something from 3e for the former and an amalgamation of things from prior editions for the latter.

The feywild existed in 3e as an optional plane of Faerie, though 4e put it front and center in its cosmology and expanded it quite a bit (similar in many ways to Pathfinder's faerie plane of the First World). I wouldn't mind a plane of Faerie/feywild in 5e, but it would need to be more careful to forge its own identity based on real world fey myths while simultaneously allowing for the fey-inspired celestial eladrin from 2e and 3e to retain their own presence in Arborea as an outer plane distinct from a more material, less metaphysical fey plane.

The 4e Shadowfell was just the 2e/3e Plane of Shadow fused with elements of the 1e/2e/3e Negative Energy plane and random aspects of Ravenloft. I found it thematically muddled in that it forced together a lot of things that IMO worked better as their own thing.
 
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TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
I'm not sure that I'd necessarily call either one an innovation...

Sure, everything is long since derivative at this point. You could also just have things like this in the world, i.e. places where the barriers to the outer planes/other worlds are thiner, and have freaky stuff in them...magical forests, haunted hills, etc.

But the presentation and the way they where used was novel, and useful. Could add them into play very easily and interestingly. The fact that they absorbed other planar concepts, like the ethereal, was clearly a feature for some and a bug for others.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
The feywild existed in 3e as an optional plane of Faerie, though 4e put it front and center in its cosmology and expanded it quite a bit (similar in many ways to Pathfinder's faerie plane of the First World). I wouldn't mind a plane of Faerie/feywild in 5e, but it would need to be more careful to forge its own identity based on real world fey myths while simultaneously allowing for the fey-inspired celestial eladrin from 2e and 3e to retain their own presence in Arborea as an outer plane distinct from a more material, less metaphysical fey plane.

I've been wondering about this too. I'm writing a Planescape adventure that features the Queen of Air & Darkness & courts of the fey as one of the thematic elements... How to reconcile Eladrin, their traditional 2e placement in Arborea, and their 4e placement in Faerie?

Definitely agree with you about looking to real world fey myths for the Faerie/Feywild. IIRC fey were often superstitiously connected to the spirits of the dead... or sometimes not explained at all! So there's the more organized view of "an elder amoral nature race living in hiding from humankind" and then there's the mysterious view. I think if the mysterious view was played up it might work better thematically.

For example, why can the eladrin travel so easily to the Prime worlds? Maybe it's because they use the Feywild, which somehow links to Arborea the realm of the elven Seldarine? Eladrin might become the equivalent of the Seelie Court who are made a choice to have morality and to support mortal's free will, thus aligning themselves with the elven gods. So the Court of Stars is comprised of the small number of fey (eladrin) who choose good morals and to serve as muses to humankind. Is their original home plane Faerie/Feywild? Probably, but it's hard to say for sure. For magical purposes they are natives of both Arborea...or possibly both Arborea and the Feywild as suits the whimsical beings.

This opens up design space for what the Unseelie Court would look like? In PS they were linked to Pandemonium, which implies predatory selfishness & madness, the abandonment of meaning, I imagine them as something like the True Fey from Changeling: the Lost...alien beings consumed with sating their own maniacal whims. They've also adopted a moral stance: mortals are chattel and entertainment that deserve to be enslaved. Perhaps once they were natives of Faerie/Feywild, but now they're just as much a part of Pandemonium...or perhaps the Plane of Nightmares...or even Shadow/Ravenloft...it's hard to say with such shifty beings.

Most fey, however, take no such moral stance and are neutral/unaligned in that they have their own magical codes which defy mortal ethics. You could even go the "they were once an abundant prosperous race that was forced into the shadows of the wild lands by human expansion/conquest", so they enjoy mischief to get back at humans. These fey properly belong in Faerie/Feywild.

I guess what I'm getting at is the fey defy sys-admin organizational thinking; their origins are multiple. The most important part are their stories, and these are unique to groups of fey or to individual fey. Precisely placing fey in the cosmology is less important than giving them compelling stories that can hook adventurers into their convoluted politics and flights of fantasy.
 


Hussar

Legend
My only bitch about this is it forces all planar material to be vanilla. Everything that has anything to do with the planes has to fit within the Planescape model. And I think this is extremely stifling for creativity.

Imagine if all dragon lore, for all D&D, for all settings, had to follow Dragonlance lore. All dragons follow Paladine or Takhisis, and all draconic lore must never contradict anything from Dragonlance. It can add to Dragonlance lore, but never contradict. I think most people would be pretty unhappy.

But, this is what happened in 2e with Planescape. Every single planar element had to fit within Planescape and could never, ever contradict Planescape lore. Eladrin MUST be outer planar super-elves, Demons and Devils MUST be at war with each other, etc. etc.

I have absolutely no problem with Planescape fans getting support. I fully believe that they should. But, I've never understood why that must come at the cost of everyone else who plays the game. It's not like undead has to follow Ravenloft lore or dragons have to follow Dragonlance or any other game material must follow a single setting.

Why can't Planescape be its own self contained setting? Why does it have to be the default setting for all D&D, regardless of setting? Dragons are different in every single setting. Undead are different in every single setting. Heck, ORCS are different in every single setting. Why does every single outer planar critter have to follow Planescape lore? Why does the Blood War have to exist outside of the Planescape setting? Why are my Githyanki, Planescape Githyanki and not a thing on their own?

Please, for the love of gaming, keep Planescape as its own thing and leave your peanut butter out of my chocolate.
 

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