D&D 3E/3.5 Any of you roll back 3.5 rules to 3.0?

Melkor

Explorer
I was thinking of changing some of the 3.5 rules back to 3.0.

Mainly, Wizard hit dice back to D4 (edit: my mistake - they already get D4 hit dice), and using 3.0 Cover Rules. Was just wondering if anyone else had done this, and if the former might have a big impact?

Thanks.
 
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delericho

Legend
Um, in 3.5e Wizard hit dice are d4's. :)

While there are a number of areas where I thought the 3.0e rules were better than the 3.5e ones, cover wasn't one of them - I appreciated the simplicity. Still, you shouldn't see any problems with making that change, as it's a pretty modular bit of the rules.
 

Melkor

Explorer
Holy crap. I guess somewhere in the last decade, I mistakenly picked up the belief that Wizards changed to D6 Hit Dice after 3.0.

Thanks.

We never played a game past 10th level in 3.0, and probably never past 7th or 8th in 3.5. I have heard of the dreaded 'CoDZilla,' but haven't seen it in play. We only have one player in our group that really likes to minmax and loophole rules, but he is also the player that would probably pick a Cleric or Druid to play.

What should the DM (will not be me) do to watch out for that?
 

delericho

Legend
We never played a game past 10th level in 3.0, and probably never past 7th or 8th in 3.5. I have heard of the dreaded 'CoDZilla,' but haven't seen it in play. We only have one player in our group that really likes to minmax and loophole rules, but he is also the player that would probably pick a Cleric or Druid to play.

What should the DM (will not be me) do to watch out for that?

The best bet is probably just to talk to the player. It's not really possible to avoid the issue by banning supplements (since some of the biggest problems are in the core rulebooks), and it's not really possible to house-rule it away (because it goes right to the core of the magic system). Better just to talk to the player before to ask him not to hijack the game, and then again later if the DM needs him to reel it in.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
I was thinking of changing some of the 3.5 rules back to 3.0.

Back to the time when the 3.5 revision came out, as the current DM for our group I liked what I saw in the revision and immediately switched to using the 3.5 SRD, but did not immediately buy the books. We played regularly several months, and gradually realized that while 3.0 had felt a coeherent organic whole, 3.5 felt like lots of stitches. Reverted back to 3.0 completely, never played 3.5 again (except online, where apparently everyone did find 3.5 preferable, so if I wanted to still play-by-post I had to comply), and never bought a single 3.5 book except Unearthed Arcana.
 

Greenfield

Adventurer
The big changes I found useful in 3.5 were that 3.0 had too many classes with abilities "front loaded", which is to say that you got most or all of the nifty class features in the early levels, often first. It prompted people to fruit salad their PCs, taking a single level in several classes for the class features.

D&D 3.5 stopped that sort of thing by spreading out the bennies over a number of levels.

Haste in 3.0 made spell casters broken by granting an actual extra Standard Action. That meant two spells per round. In a party with any number of casters, that became the single best party buff out there. Spell casters were over done to begin with, power wise, particularly at higher levels. Doubling their power made them critically broken starting at 5th level.

Polymorph Other in 3.0 (which became Baleful Polymorph in 3.5) was also broken. It did everything that Polymorph Self did, and it made the effect permanent. There was no reason for the spell casters not to be designed with everything in the mental stats (Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma), then Polymorph Other themselves into a Stone or Fire Giant, or some other form with high physical stats. Hell, there was no reason for the entire party not to walk around in Giant form any time they were in the field. No duration limits, no drawbacks.

Finally, I liked the 3.5 Ranger class better. In 3.0 it was a weak option, with almost no reason to take it. 3.5 made it a viable PC class, and it needed that.

You can feel the seams in 3.5, where they tried to patch things from 3.0. There are references in there to limitations on spell effects, such as the mental shift from Polymorph, long after the limitation itself is gone. It really needed another round of proof reading. The system as a whole, 3.0 or 3.5 (or Pathfinder, for that matter) really needed more play testing at levels above 10. Over all, though, I think it is an improvement.
 


shadow

First Post
Back in the day I had invested quite a bit in 3.0 stuff and was quite miffed when 3.5 came out less than 3 years later. I took a look at the rules and decided that they felt way too much like a set of house rules tacked onto the game, so I continued to play 3.0.
 

the Jester

Legend
I was thinking of changing some of the 3.5 rules back to 3.0.

Mainly, Wizard hit dice back to D4 (edit: my mistake - they already get D4 hit dice), and using 3.0 Cover Rules. Was just wondering if anyone else had done this, and if the former might have a big impact?

Thanks.

I actually kept using 3.0 cover rules throughout 3.5. It didn't seem to hurt anything.

The other 3.0 rule I gave serious consideration to keeping was threat range stacking from Improved Critical and Keen weapons (I had a pc in my game who totally bumped up his threat range with his falchion).
 

eggynack

First Post
The big changes I found useful in 3.5 were that 3.0 had too many classes with abilities "front loaded", which is to say that you got most or all of the nifty class features in the early levels, often first. It prompted people to fruit salad their PCs, taking a single level in several classes for the class features.
That seems pretty true of 3.5 also. On the non-caster side of things, you have fancy one and two level dips in everything from barbarian to fighter to monk to every ToB class to totemist and even to cleric or wizard (taken for largely non-caster purposes, like devotion feats and abrupt jaunt). On the caster side, you have three of the four core primary casters with no serious class features to speak of after first level, and advancing via prestige class is often just better than the alternative. I don't know if this was somehow more true in 3.0, but it's definitely also true of 3.5.
 

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