That is what is often referred to as the "Theme Park" model -- look over here at all the stuff to do, then move down the one way path to the next area. A sandbox is more open.
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D&D 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Linear Adventures and Sandbox Wishes
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
That is what is often referred to as the "Theme Park" model -- look over here at all the stuff to do, then move down the one way path to the next area. A sandbox is more open.
Torg Smith
First Post
I run sandbox style games and do not run premade adventures. I do buy the adventures to see what ideas they have implemented in them. For example encounter layout, methods of providing plot hooks, etc. To me, the premade adventures are just idea sources or reference material.
Absolutely. There is this false notion that in order to run a sandbox you can't use published adventures, which is totally untrue. Not only can you mine published adventures for encounters, locations and such, you can completely insert an adventure into a sandbox. This is especially true of location based adventures. It doesn't stop being a sandbox just because you decided The Tomb of Horrors is located in Hex0337.
Uller
Adventurer
When I run homegrown games they are a lot more Sandbox style. I reveal 2-3 new options as they complete one (and close options that are no longer valid).
But for published adventures, even when they try to be sandboxy/sandbox, they end up feeling awfully linear when I run them. Probably because of the efficiency mentioned above...My players tend to want to hit every part of the adventure because they don't want to miss any XP or treasure and I want to see how each interesting encounter plays out.
We're just finishing up Ghosts of Dragonspear castle which is very linear...when it came time to set out to the castle for the finale' I basically said "Do you follow Isteval to Dragonspear?" When they nodded and shrugged their shoulders I said "good...because otherwise we'd just end the campaign here and make new characters for the next one..." It was a joke...sort of...
But for published adventures, even when they try to be sandboxy/sandbox, they end up feeling awfully linear when I run them. Probably because of the efficiency mentioned above...My players tend to want to hit every part of the adventure because they don't want to miss any XP or treasure and I want to see how each interesting encounter plays out.
We're just finishing up Ghosts of Dragonspear castle which is very linear...when it came time to set out to the castle for the finale' I basically said "Do you follow Isteval to Dragonspear?" When they nodded and shrugged their shoulders I said "good...because otherwise we'd just end the campaign here and make new characters for the next one..." It was a joke...sort of...
Quickleaf
Legend
"This campaign is about heroes fighting cultists and stopping their plans."
That statement is actually sandbox/linear neutral. Rather, it is firm scene framing that defines what is in and out of bounds & where the group's focus will be on most gaming sessions. IME effective scene framing is more important than whether an adventure is presented as sandbox or linear, because it gives a clear impetus for the players, and evokes ideas about how their party is connected. Even veteran gamers sometimes need a push here so the session doesn't devolve into screwing around doing nothing.
I also think you may be setting up "linear vs. sandbox" as a binary 0-1 situation, whereas I would describe it as a spectrum. Just as you can have lesser and greater infinites, you can have lesser and greater sandboxes. If the adventure is framed to be "against the cultists", for example, then the adventure isn't doing anything wrong by assuming in any given situation the PCs will tend to oppose the cultists. Just because there are boundaries doesn't mean that there aren't sandbox elements: multiple end game scenarios, adventures that can tackled in various orders, challenges with multiple possible solutions, recurring adventure sites & NPCs that change over time, big decisions for the PCs to make that effect the rest of the adventures, etc.
I don't have Hoard of the Dragon Queen, so I'm speaking abstractly here.
That statement is actually sandbox/linear neutral. Rather, it is firm scene framing that defines what is in and out of bounds & where the group's focus will be on most gaming sessions. IME effective scene framing is more important than whether an adventure is presented as sandbox or linear, because it gives a clear impetus for the players, and evokes ideas about how their party is connected. Even veteran gamers sometimes need a push here so the session doesn't devolve into screwing around doing nothing.
I also think you may be setting up "linear vs. sandbox" as a binary 0-1 situation, whereas I would describe it as a spectrum. Just as you can have lesser and greater infinites, you can have lesser and greater sandboxes. If the adventure is framed to be "against the cultists", for example, then the adventure isn't doing anything wrong by assuming in any given situation the PCs will tend to oppose the cultists. Just because there are boundaries doesn't mean that there aren't sandbox elements: multiple end game scenarios, adventures that can tackled in various orders, challenges with multiple possible solutions, recurring adventure sites & NPCs that change over time, big decisions for the PCs to make that effect the rest of the adventures, etc.
I don't have Hoard of the Dragon Queen, so I'm speaking abstractly here.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
I haven't seen the book yet, but am I reading you right that there's a PDF supplement (beyond just the Basic Rules PDF which will be trumped by the hard-copy core books in a few months anyway) you have to use with it? In other words, the book alone doesn't contain all the material needed to run the adventure? Or am I missing something here?
Tangentially, why oh why can't adventure writers in all systems put mini stat blocks (HD or level, HP, AC, # attacks, damage per attack, special attacks/defenses/qualities; all in one or two lines of text without tabular formatting) for monsters in with the room descriptions where they appear; with if necessary a note to "see page xx for more details" that points to the full stat block for the more complex monsters or opponents?
Lan-"10 HD; 76 h.p.; AC -8; att. 3/2; dmg. by wpn. +3 (Str.); SA spec. longsword; SD magic items, see character sheet for full details"-efan
I agree 100 per cent with the OP. It seems sandbox design has become something of a lost art. And while I agree that linear stories are probably the most popular adventure format, my sense is 65 per cent of people prefer them, but 95 per cent of adventures follow that format because the RPG market is so small it's hard to make a buck catering to the 35 per cent who want a real sandbox.
But yeah, I looked over Hoard of the Dragon Queen at my FLGS, and set it down in disappointment. I hope WotC changes it up with subsequent adventures/settings. Or maybe third party publishers will carry the torch for sandbox play. Necromancer Games published some good ones back in the day - things like the Vault of Larin Karr, the Lost City of Barakus, and the excellent Ancient Kingdoms: Mesopotamia. My worry is WotC regards Paizo's AP model as the way to go for adventures. And the APs I've read are not at all what I'm looking for in adventure/setting supplements.
But yeah, I looked over Hoard of the Dragon Queen at my FLGS, and set it down in disappointment. I hope WotC changes it up with subsequent adventures/settings. Or maybe third party publishers will carry the torch for sandbox play. Necromancer Games published some good ones back in the day - things like the Vault of Larin Karr, the Lost City of Barakus, and the excellent Ancient Kingdoms: Mesopotamia. My worry is WotC regards Paizo's AP model as the way to go for adventures. And the APs I've read are not at all what I'm looking for in adventure/setting supplements.
This is how I see it: for "storyline" adventures, such as ToD, WotC will publish episodic railroads (which I have nothing against, in fact I'm buying ToD). I think we'll see sandbox-y adventures not related to the "storyline" format or Organized Play, but as far as business decisions go, OP-compatible adventure will take precedence in the schedule.
Personally, I'm happy with both format. Sometimes I can put together a sandbox group for the long term, and sometimes I have to cram a campaign in four or five sessions railroad.
Personally, I'm happy with both format. Sometimes I can put together a sandbox group for the long term, and sometimes I have to cram a campaign in four or five sessions railroad.
I am really disappointed that the adventure doesn't have abbreviated stat blocks when the monsters appear in the adventure (as others have stated). Some encounters will require using the appendix of the book plush multiple pages in the PDF supplement for the same encounter.
i guess I will have to put together my own list of abbreviated stat blocks to use the adventure. Very disappointing for a $30 adventure.
i guess I will have to put together my own list of abbreviated stat blocks to use the adventure. Very disappointing for a $30 adventure.
While I'm very happy with adventures that don't have the stat blocks. Including the stat blocks in Dragon Queen would probably add 4 pages to the page count. Or rather, they would have had to remove 4 pages of other content to include the stats.
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