D&D 5E Paladin Over Powered?

[Markn]

Giving the paladin the ability to swap spells for increased melee damage seems too much to me (I'm at work and don't have the PH with me so I believe it is called Smite). In our playtest group the paladin was able to dish out some heavy damage and seemed to outdo most of the rest of the group on a consistent basis. We were playing 9th-11th level. I was seeing a Paladin routinely do 50 damage in a round (average) and looking at some of the dragons from the recent MM previews, dragons are around 200HPs - that's 25% of its total! I was certain that this was going to be changed in the PH but it hasn't been.

What are your thought about this ability? Is damage one of the Paladin's schticks in 5e? Is it too much? Do other classes match this output? Other thoughts?

 

[KarinsDad]

The average breakdown at those levels is:

4 times per day, 9 extra points of damage
3 times per day, 13 extra points of damage
2 times per day, 18 extra points of damage

So a Paladin with a two handed non-magical weapon could be doing 13 points of damage for two swings for 44 points of damage if both swings hit. 2 times per day. He gives up his highest level spells to do so.

Not really seeing a problem. It's big, but Paladins should be doing big damage a few times a day.

 

[Halivar]

And unlike the fighter, he only ever gets the two attacks, so they gotta count.

 

[doctorhook]

And unlike the fighter, he only ever gets the two attacks, so they gotta count.

I don't have my books with me either. Is the smite wasted on a miss?

 

[Halivar]

I don't have my books with me either. Is the smite wasted on a miss?

I'm not sure, but I hope not. The ability that adds your Cha bonus to hit is ​expended on a miss, I know that.

 

[Markn]

[3D][/3D]

I don't have my books with me either. Is the smite wasted on a miss?

No.

 

[Gargoyle]

I don't have my books with me either. Is the smite wasted on a miss?

No. It's worded as "When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack..."

 

[Markn]

[MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION]

The math makes sense and maybe its not as bad I fear. But once you add other classes to the mix that grant Advantage on attacks, extra damage from other spells, and if its an undead or a fiend, it seems to get pretty high oh so quick! It still leaves me uneasy and something that I think will get over powered pretty quick...
[MENTION=9327]Halivar[/MENTION]

Yeah, I get that. Still seemed to be pretty strong to me.

I guess now that the books are out, once we get back to those levels we will see how it plays out....

 

[KarinsDad]

[MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION]

The math makes sense and maybe its not as bad I fear. But once you add other classes to the mix that grant Advantage on attacks, extra damage from other spells, and if its an undead or a fiend, it seems to get pretty high oh so quick! It still leaves me uneasy and something that I think will get over powered pretty quick...

Yeah, but at 10th level, melee PCs have about 60 to 80 or so hit points themselves.

That means that if you are sending 5 70 hit point monsters at 5 PCs, then 44 points of damage does do 60%+ of a monster's hit points, but that monster is still up and the Paladin just used up one of his highest level slots.

The proof is in the pudding and we will see, but compared to the Wizard's 5th level slot 10D6 fireball doing 35 points versus multiple targets, half on a save, 44 points single target is not looking that big.

 

[Markn]

Yeah, but at 10th level, melee PCs have about 60 to 80 or so hit points themselves.

That means that if you are sending 5 70 hit point monsters at 5 PCs, then 44 points of damage does do 60%+ of a monster's hit points, but that monster is still up and the Paladin just used up one of his highest level slots.

The proof is in the pudding and we will see, but compared to the Wizard's 5th level slot 10D6 fireball doing 35 points versus multiple targets, half on a save, 44 points single target is not looking that big.

Keep in mind a Paladin can crit maximizing the damage. A fireball can't.

One of the things we didn't have for playtesting was guidelines on how long the adventuring day was. That may have contributed to the feeling that the Paladin could always dish out some big damage as I tended to keep encounters low but with high difficulty. Between the PH, the Basic rules, and some previews of the other books, I think guidelines exist on the adventuring day which may also reduce this issue.