D&D 5E Unfortunate Wording

[Jynx_lucky_j]

It think this is a case of having ones head so full of the rules from previous editions that it becomes difficult to grok the changes. I can't count the number of times I've read a section less than thoroughly because it didn't seem much had changed at a quick glance. And even when I know better I catch myself slipping into older editions occasionally.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

If the spell required an attack roll, would the "fighter" with the arcana skill use the appropriate caster stat? Would they get to apply their proficiency bonus?

I'm thinking that they wouldn't get their proficiency bonus because they aren't proficient in casting spells.

What say ye?

 

[Agamon]

If the spell required an attack roll, would the "fighter" with the arcana skill use the appropriate caster stat? Would they get to apply their proficiency bonus?

I'm thinking that they wouldn't get their proficiency bonus because they aren't proficient in casting spells.

What say ye?

Nobody does. You use the Save DC and Attack Mod from the chart provided.

 

[charlesearth]

Two responses.
Second, why is this ridiculous? Why can't a clever fighter read a spell from a scroll?

Above it, the DM reads: "A spell scroll bears the magical words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher."

No amount of luck or cleverness allows someone to read a text in a completely different language than yours and written using an unknown character set.

 

[pemerton]

Are you guys serious? Look at the Starter set rules

I hadn't seen the Starter Set rules until they were posted in this thread. If you want to run it that way, I don't think anyone's stopping you. But I don't see that it's going to break the game if fighters have a chance to use spell scrolls!

look at the higher level "use magic device" ability of the Thief Archetype, which would be seriously lessened.

It might be stretching the rule a bit, but I'd say that the rogue can cast a scroll without making the Arcana check.

I don't see how this is a stretch. The thief ability permits use of items without regard to class or level. Given that the need for an Arcana check is a function of class and level, the thief can ignore that requirement.

I don't really see that the fighter's chance to read a scroll is going to tread heavily on the thief's toes. (But then I don't have a big emotional investment in the use magic device ability in any event.)

 

[Sonny]

Above it, the DM reads: "A spell scroll bears the magical words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher."

No amount of luck or cleverness allows someone to read a text in a completely different language than yours and written using an unknown character set.

That's assuming "magical words" means magic is it's own language and/or character set. In fiction, magic words (and casting spells) has sometimes just been about getting the right (seemingly ordinary)words into the right order.

As for the mystical cipher... classic ciphers didn't use different character sets, just re-arranging or transposing letters of existing characters. And clever people could definitely break those ciphers.

I do understand where you're coming from though.

Also, Welcome to EN World!

 

[Agamon]

Above it, the DM reads: "A spell scroll bears the magical words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher."

No amount of luck or cleverness allows someone to read a text in a completely different language than yours and written using an unknown character set.

Thus the Arcana check to decipher it. That isn't luck or cleverness, it's knowledge of the arcane. Wizards don't have "Arcane" under languages known.

 

[pemerton]

Above it, the DM reads: "A spell scroll bears the magical words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher."

No amount of luck or cleverness allows someone to read a text in a completely different language than yours and written using an unknown character set.

The cipher isn't necessarily in a different character set. And even if it is, a clever fighter might have learned a few magical runes along the way. Not to mention that it is of the nature of mystical ciphers to impress themselves upon the minds of those who (try to) read them!

EDIT: double ninja-ed!!

 

[Supersonic159]

Keep in mind one of the big draws to having scrolls is so that you can copy it down into your book as a Wizard. Not using a spell slot (or needing one) and basically saving a spell for later are just side attractions.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Keep in mind one of the big draws to having scrolls is so that you can copy it down into your book as a Wizard. Not using a spell slot (or needing one) and basically saving a spell for later are just side attractions.

Big draws for Wizards. Not true for ... well, just about any other spellcaster