[D&D 3.0] How to build a Fighter-Mage?

[Sitara]

D&D version is 3.0, not 3.5.

32 point buy.

Core races only.

Supplements allowed: PHB, DMG, , Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith, Song and Silence, Tome and Blood and Masters of the Wild, Hero Builder's Guidebook, Arms and Equipment Guide

Campaign will go up to level 10-12, assuming there is no TPK.

So, what's the best way to build a Warrior-Mage?

Since Unapproachable East is not allowed, that means I can't use the Raumathari Battlemage, which is a pity.

I am thinking of the following point buy:

Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 08
Cha 08

Race Human ??
Class Wizard 1 (Evoker)
Feats: EWP: Bastard Sword
Human Bonus??
All level up ability points will go into INT, giving me an 18 INT by level 8. The 14 DEX gives me a +2 AC which I can enhance by another +4 Mage Armor. Shield is better in many ways but only lasts for 1 min/level, MA lasts for 1hr/level which can get me through more than one combat with one casting even at lower levels. Yes it burns a spell slot, but at lower levels I can contribute more in combat via melee'ing than spell casting. I could wear armor, but the spell failiure chance, even of 20% bothers me. Any way to counter this apart from the Still Spell feat?

How does it look, and what should I do afterward? How to level up? What PRC to go for?

Please HELP!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: ASF

1) I believe Mithril works much the same in 3Ed and 3.5Ed, namely that it is lighter and reduces ASF.

2) use spells that don't require somatic components.

3) use spells you can cast out of combat, and thus, unarmored.

4) there are PrCls in 3Ed that minimize ASF, liKe the Spellsword.

Personally, I wouldn't bother burning the 1st feat on XWP: Bastard Sword, since you're not going to be optimized for martial damage output & durability like a pure warrior. You're a skirmisher. You're flexible & versatile. Besides, if you go with a good one-handed martial weapon, that will free up your off-hand for a shield or- as you level- wands and the like.

Actually, if you go in with a build emphasizing one-handed spears & javelins, a Quiver of Ehlonna could make you into mobile artillery. Fill it with spears, javelins...and wands (instead of bolts/arrows).

Going that route means you don't need to have 4 good stats- Dex and Int (or Cha, if you go Sorc) and EITHER Str or Con will be sufficient.

I know the Wizard bonus Metamagic feats are seductive. But Sorcerer gives you the ability to spam good spells. Consider: Extend Spell coupled with the longer spell durations of many buff spells in 3Ed means you could buff yourself and your allies for HOURS with good stuff and never be concerned with ASF. If you do stick with Wizard, though, Specialize.

 

[Sitara]

Come on folks, more suggestions please. I know there are plenty of threads on Warrior Mage builds, but they are all 3.5e. I can only use 3.0 and the books I listed in the OP.

And I am set on using a sword, no thrown weapons please.

Any tips on opposing schools would be nice too. I am thinking about spec'ing in Evocation and taking Necro, Divination and Enchantment as opposing schools. By giving up Divination I give up True Strike, and that will hurt, but I don't want to give up Illusion due to Mirror Image.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

OK, sword it is. I'd still just go with a martial one-hander- longsword, scimitar, rapier or even short sword are just fine.

On Specialization: I generally pick opposition schools that reflect the personality of the PC, not adhere to metaconcepts of optimization.

Admitting I'm not an optimizer, I'll point out that Evocation is generally considered one of the weaker Specialty schools because defeating foes via direct damage is usually the least efficient...and there are so many resistances and immunities that affect its efficacy. Conjuration can cover a lot of Evocation's bases with the Orb spells & such. It can also cov some Abjuration. Make sure you have some school that is good vs undead, many of whom are immune to key spells in Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy.

Also, do you know anything about the campaign world or DM? Info on either will help you figure out which schools will be more helpful in actual play.

If you look in my sig, you'll see a link for the Martial Arcanist database. The info is all post-3.5Ed, but the level-sorted list there covering spells without somatic components will help you find some of them.

This site- when active- covers 3Ed and 3.5Ed. As I recall, it also lets you search for spells by edition and whether they have a particular component.

http://dndtools.eu

 

[TolumvireOfArendur]

I'm no expert on optimized builds, but a friend of mine played a fighter-mage character, and I can describe his build and choices:

His highest stats were Strength and Charisma, and he played a Human for the extra Feat. His first level was Fighter, and his second level was Sorcerer. He took Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword, so that he could deal high damage while keeping a hand free for somatic components. For armor, he always paid extra to have light armor made from Mirthil, and I recall that his Dex was decent as well (14 or something, maybe 15 at most).

In terms of spells, he focused on spells that would aid him in melee, such as True Strike and Mage Armor. As a Sorcerer, he had greater short term versatility instead of long term versatility; he could cast whatever spell he wanted, but had a limited range to pick from.

Another thing he did that helped him a lot was to use his high Charisma for more then just Sorcerer spells. He put ranks in Bluff and Intimidate, thus creating a versatile melee combatant with a few spells and excellent diplomatic skills.

Of course, this is not optimized, but I found it worked nicely for a casual campaign.

 

[rgard]

D&D version is 3.0, not 3.5.

32 point buy.

Core races only.

Supplements allowed: PHB, DMG, , Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith, Song and Silence, Tome and Blood and Masters of the Wild, Hero Builder's Guidebook, Arms and Equipment Guide

Campaign will go up to level 10-12, assuming there is no TPK.

So, what's the best way to build a Warrior-Mage?

Since Unapproachable East is not allowed, that means I can't use the Raumathari Battlemage, which is a pity.

I am thinking of the following point buy:

Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 08
Cha 08

Race Human ??
Class Wizard 1 (Evoker)
Feats: EWP: Bastard Sword
Human Bonus??
All level up ability points will go into INT, giving me an 18 INT by level 8. The 14 DEX gives me a +2 AC which I can enhance by another +4 Mage Armor. Shield is better in many ways but only lasts for 1 min/level, MA lasts for 1hr/level which can get me through more than one combat with one casting even at lower levels. Yes it burns a spell slot, but at lower levels I can contribute more in combat via melee'ing than spell casting. I could wear armor, but the spell failiure chance, even of 20% bothers me. Any way to counter this apart from the Still Spell feat?

How does it look, and what should I do afterward? How to level up? What PRC to go for?

Please HELP!

Can you use UA? It's part of the SRD so there is a reference.

If you can, check out Battle Sorcerer.

 

[Voadam]

Tome and Blood has a fantastic feat, persistent spell, that allows combat buffs to last all day, but it adds 4 levels to the spells so it will only be effective at 9th for straight wizards for doing things like shield and at 11th doing things like all day blur as your capstone magic.

Straight wizards with a sword get chewed up in combat though at every level, even when specced out on melee combat spells. The AC never gets real good, the BAB hurts, and the hp are fairly crippling for head to head combat. Taking a level of fighter or other warrior class at first level helps at low levels but then you quickly fall behind as a warrior and are down a spell level as a caster.

Splitting half and half means you lose a lot of BAB and some hp as a fighter and either go without armor for a much lower AC or use a limited spell selection of no somatic components or lose extra spell levels for still spell on top of being a wizard of half the party level meaning your spell selection and the power of your spells is lower and you get fewer of them. It is a very poor choice. The spellsword PRC from Tome and Blood mitigates this a little with reducing some spell failure but you need to be 6th level to meet the prerequisites and you are still a wizard of half level and not full BAB progression even after entering the PRC. Still very weak at both fighting and magic with little synergy IMO.

Here is how I would suggest.

Either int or cha 11, the rest all in physicals. Level 1 is a warrior-type class of your choice for the max hp. Level 2 is either wizard or sorcerer. The rest is all warrior class who uses armor weapons, wands, and scrolls. Net -1 BAB, a few lower hp and back 1 in the warrior class. Most combat magic is from wands which can be used in armor and not provoke AoOs. Utility spells from scrolls usually out of combat out of armor. Low level utility and buff spells go a long way and you are a decent warrior. A wand of mirror image is fantastic for a front liner from as soon as you get it and stays useful even at high levels.

People do the warrior caster as a ranged combatant fairly decently because the lack of AC and hp does not hurt nearly as much, but I think you want Gandalf swinging a sword which is fairly tough to do effectively.

 

[Starfox]

For a caster-mage, I'd always use a two-handed weapon. You can shift the grip on the weapon to hold itin only one hand as a free action, allowing you to cast spells (staff wizards do this all the time), and two-handed is just plain better than one handed without shield.

If you use a one-handed weapon, you might want to consider large shield. You can fight with it, it gives an AC bonus with the right feat, you can weild it two-handed for the extra damage, and you can cast spells - albeit with a spell failure chance. You can also put it down to cast spells without spell failure out of combat.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Your AC will always be low. Don't rely on it. Pick illusion spells such as Mirror Image and Displacement to make sure you just don't get hit.

At higher levels, you can actually get a good (indeed, ridiculous) AC by abusing Polymorph Self. Turn into a troll, enjoy your new high ability scores and natural armor. Polymorph Self lasts a long time in 3.0 too, IIRC.

Speaking of spell schools... specialize. You're going to be spell-limited, and you don't need the entire variety of spells, especially if there's already another mage in the group.

Your real problem is the action economy. Quicken Spell is too expensive to use on low-level defense spells, and you can't pull that off until you can cast 9th-level spells anyway. There's stuff in 3.5 and Pathfinder that relieve that, but you're sticking with 3.0, so there's no cure that I've seen.

 

[Sitara]

Ok thanks for the tips guys, but I really need more help. I am going out of my mind here deciding what to do and what not to do. The game is this coming Saturday, we will be playing all evening until late night. We are going to start at level 1 and are expected to go all the way uptill level 3, give or take by adventures end. The adventure will then continue every other Saturday. Our DM says he designed the adventure to level us up quickly the first time, but subsequent adventures will have slower leveling, max of 1 per session if that.

Mithril is out of the question at level 1, so are masterwork items. The game is going to be low on magic and special items, especially as much time will be spent in the wild and in dungeons. Death is a real possibility in this game. Whoever dies joins the DM running monsters for that night only, and can rejoin the next game with a new character but with less xp than the rest of the survivors. This might seem harsh, but adds a cool thrill to the game (we are all old friends from High School so we are cool with it)

So anyway here is what I have planned:

-Race Human (free feat is too attractive since we start at level 1.)
-High Str and Int, followed by Con and finally Dex. I won't focus that much on AC like [MENTION=6693129]Severed[/MENTION]Head said, but I still need to survive to level 3-4 to be able to cast Mirror Image.
-First level will be Wizard. I want to cast spells right off the bat. Also, while I would actually prefer sorcerer, I will be loosing spell levels already due to multi classing into a fighter, so it's not worth it IMO to lose even more by taking Sorcerer. Best of all I get Scribe Scroll I can use to make back up scrolls for emergencies.
-Spec school Evocation or Abjuration. Opposing schools Necromancy, Divination, and Enchantment. Losing True Strike hurts, but it's the ONLY Divination spell worth taking for a warrior mage up until the really high levels. Just not worth it IMO. And I don't want to loose Illusion for mirror image and other cool stuff. I can also take Color Spray instead of Sleep to have a group disabler.
-Feat Choices: EWP Bastard Sword, Spell Focus (unless someone recommends another)

Now I need tips on how to proceed and/or further improve it. Should I go Wizard 3 asap in order to get mirror image? Or should I go for a Fighter level earlier?

And is Spellsword worth it? It seems really underwhelming. I mostly dislike the loss of spell casting levels. But there really is nothing else worthwhile to take. Blade singer sucks.