Pathfinder 1E Does Tiamat existsin Golarion?

[Desdichado]

For others, like Graz'zt, we can't use them at all because there are no open rules for them and they have no real-world mythological basis.

Actually, Graz'zt is very much like folkloric figures Krampus, Zwarte Piet, the Black Man of the Woods (of Salem witch trial infamy), Old Scratch and others. And Erik Mona's Armies of the Abyss introduced him (sorta) as a "familiar" demon lord with the modified name of... Vaz'zht or something similar.

I agree that it's not quite as cut and dried as Orcus, but you could get there by remixing various existing OGC and public domain folklore, although granted it wouldn't be exactly the same. It would be as close as you were able to get to the D&D versions of Dagon or Malcanthet, though.

 

[James Jacobs]

Actually, Graz'zt is very much like folkloric figures Krampus, Zwarte Piet, the Black Man of the Woods (of Salem witch trial infamy), Old Scratch and others. And Erik Mona's Armies of the Abyss introduced him (sorta) as a "familiar" demon lord with the modified name of... Vaz'zht or something similar.

I agree that it's not quite as cut and dried as Orcus, but you could get there by remixing various existing OGC and public domain folklore, although granted it wouldn't be exactly the same. It would be as close as you were able to get to the D&D versions of Dagon or Malcanthet, though.

That's certainly true about Graz'zt... he draws upon a LOT of those types of traditions... but so do a lot of other demons. There's no "Graz'zt" in mythology, nor any ebon-skinned six-fingered wavy-bladed-bastard-swording mythological figure out there that he's specifically based upon, and so we can't and don't touch him. We've got our own characters who fill this role, of course, with Socothbenoth being the primary one.

Orcus is, in fact, entirely open content in his classic D&D incarnation thanks to the Tome of Horrors. We've not done much with him in Golarion mostly out of respect for the fact that he's shown up as a major player a LOT in various D&D books AND in various Necromancer Games/Frog God books, and more. Put another way... Orcus has had plenty of time in the spotlight. Since he IS open content, we do have him in Golarion and he did get an entry in "Book of the Damned 2," though. We might do more with him some day, but I personally kinda scratched my own Orcus itch with Savage Tide.

Dagon is also in Pathfinder already, and his incarnation is relatively close to the version I helped build for D&D. Dagon's the perfect storm in a lot of ways... he had open stats in in Tome of Horrors, an established real-world mythology, AND was a significant character in the public domain from Lovecraft's stories. He's probably the MOST "open" of the various demon lords as a result.

Malcanthet, on the other hand, was pretty much created entirely by myself and Rob Kuntz for D&D. She does draw upon a lot of the classic succubus/Lilith type tropes, but that specific incarnation of the trope is off limits. Nocticula is the Malcanthet figure of Golarion, although she's got a lot more assassin and shadow stuff than Malcanthet did.

 

[Desdichado]

That's certainly true about Graz'zt... he draws upon a LOT of those types of traditions... but so do a lot of other demons. There's no "Graz'zt" in mythology, nor any ebon-skinned six-fingered wavy-bladed-bastard-swording mythological figure out there that he's specifically based upon, and so we can't and don't touch him. We've got our own characters who fill this role, of course, with Socothbenoth being the primary one.

Right; sorry--didn't mean to imply that you should, merely that one could approach Graz'zt, if one wanted, using existing OGC and public domain stuff. I did something similar in my own homebrew; I wanted a god for my pantheon that was based on Graz'zt, but not exactly. I ended up blending him with the Black Pharoah incarnation of Nyarlathotep and in informal descriptions I was more likely to compare him to a blend of Nightcrawler and Darth Maul, at least physically. And as a name, I borrowed from Slavic mythology and called him Chernavog, which I then "Italianized" since my main empire is more Mediterranean in character, so it became Ciernavo.

Then I even made him one of the Four Horsemen; the first one on a white horse who represents Conquest. End result; I guess he's really not Graz'zt at all anymore. Oh, well.

 

[Voadam]

Actually, Graz'zt is very much like folkloric figures Krampus, Zwarte Piet, the Black Man of the Woods (of Salem witch trial infamy), Old Scratch and others. And Erik Mona's Armies of the Abyss introduced him (sorta) as a "familiar" demon lord with the modified name of... Vaz'zht or something similar.

I agree that it's not quite as cut and dried as Orcus, but you could get there by remixing various existing OGC and public domain folklore, although granted it wouldn't be exactly the same. It would be as close as you were able to get to the D&D versions of Dagon or Malcanthet, though.

I thought they had not OGC'd their versions of the familiar D&D demon lords but you are right.

Here is what Book of Fiends released as OGC on their demon lords:

the name, info block and
obedience of each demon prince in Chapter 3

Here is the material from Book of Fiends chapter 3 on Vaz'zht:

Vaz’zht
Areas of Concern: Nobility, espionage
Domains: Chaos, Eloquence, Evil, Subterfuge
Favored Weapon: Bastard sword
Obedience: To regain spells, a thaumaturge in service to the
Ebony Lord Vaz’zht must cut a small slice bisecting the front
of his tongue. He then allows his mouth to fill with blood while
thinking about how to eliminate one person who poses a political
threat to him. Once his mouth is bursting with liquid, he yells out
the name of the enemy in an ejaculation of sound and blood.

political bastard swording ebon lord, just missing the six fingers.