D&D 5E Monster Manual and Players Hand Book Power Levels

Hmmmm, I guess it is standard procedure around here that if a poster does not like some aspect of the game, old grog posters come in and say you have not played the game with great amounts of snark. Of course when those old grog posters are called out on such snark, their mod buddies come to their rescue.

nice fair system here I must say.

It seems pretty obvious that you haven't played the game at this point. Those things are still incredibly powerful. Just because their AC is lower doesn't mean they aren't still scary.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Hmmmm, I guess it is standard procedure around here that if a poster does not like some aspect of the game, old grog posters come in and say you have not played the game with great amounts of snark. Of course when those old grog posters are called out on such snark, their mod buddies come to their rescue.

nice fair system here I must say.

I'm not an old grog and from your posts it seems like you haven't played the game...

and i I don't have any buddy mods around here, so instead of trying to attack those who say that by the standards of the community you are wrong either give concrete examples from actual game play that will help your POV, or go back and play the game.

5e plays different than it reads, mainly because many players are set into old thinking patterns.

Warder
 

No one is attacking anybody little dude, but accusing someone of not playing D&D because they might have a difference of opinion is seriously in poor form. To also add, yes I play 5E, I am DM'ing a 5E campaign so I do know what the 5E classes are capable of. Now my question is have you played 5E? If so then you know the cantrips alone can be pretty hard hitting.

I'm not an old grog and from your posts it seems like you haven't played the game...

and i I don't have any buddy mods around here, so instead of trying to attack those who say that by the standards of the community you are wrong either give concrete examples from actual game play that will help your POV, or go back and play the game.

5e plays different than it reads, mainly because many players are set into old thinking patterns.

Warder
 


No one is attacking anybody little dude.

From your mouth to the ears of God, what I wouldn't do to be 20 again... *sigh*

Just for the record, you trying to belittle me by calling me little dude is a passive/aggressive Attack, doesn't really faze me though...

Any way, as of today I have under my belt almost 60 hours of playing with the official rules and since I gotten my MM at gencon I had more time to put them through their paces, and if you think that cantrips are that hard hitting, I have no idea what you are playing, they are average at best, going in I though that I would have to nerf them but they honestly not that bad around the table.

I would appriciate that when you address me next you refrain from passive/aggressive barbs, honestly it should be beneath us...

Warder
 
Last edited:

Hmmmm, I guess it is standard procedure around here that if a poster does not like some aspect of the game, old grog posters

Huh, didn't know they lowered the grog age requirement to 22.

their mod buddies come to their rescue.

I've been here for a little over a month. Then again, I am fairly charismatic, so perhaps some of the mods have taken a liking to me already. :P

In all seriousness, based on your posts in this thread, it does make me think that you haven't played much of 5E. Perhaps you have, and maybe you've found a ray of frost that deals 4d8 maximum breaks the game against Balor and Dragons. I haven't found that to be the case, and my players still quake in fear at the mention of higher monsters. The thing I love about 5E is that they stay afraid of nearly everything.
 

I've run several hundred hours of 5E, both in the playtest stage (probably around 400 hours), and since the PHB was released (about 80-100 hours) in both home games and D&D Encounters. I can say without a doubt that monsters have not been this deadly since AD&D 1E. True, their numerical stats are lower, but so are the stats of the PCs, but - and here is the important thing - they are proportional (more or less) to each other, with roughly the same ratios at 1e/2e. So no, you won't have superpowered munchkinfest characters with unhittable ACs, attack bonuses that make the die roll irrelevant, and save bonuses that ensure an always successful save in 5e like you had in 3.x. Instead of that, PCs gain new abilities that allow them to do things they couldn't before.

Now, while the playtest monsters were admittedly underpowered, the ones in the MM are definitely not. I've had TPKs (and not just kills, FAST kills) using ochre jellies, black puddings, ogres, trolls, perytons, troglodytes, and pit fiends with six summoned bearded devils. The pit fiend and bearded devils took down a group of 7 level 18 PCs in 4 rounds. I know, the pit fiend ONLY has a 19 AC, and it did take some damage, but the pit fiend's 4 attacks, ability to use wall of flame, magic resistance, and fear aura were crippling to the group, and the bearded devils poisoned group members with their beards, and inflicted infernal wounds with their glaives. The really cool thing is that the bearded devils (which are CR3) were a threat to level 18 PCs when paired with the pit fiend and played intelligently by the DM. This same encounter in 3e would have been mowed through in 2-3 rounds by 7 level 18 PCs, with hardly a scratch. My players still are terrified of not only pit fiends, but bearded devils!

The one dragon encounter I ran ended with the party (6 level 12 PCs) fleeing from an adult green dragon's lair. The green dragon only took about 80 damage, but its natural abilities and lair actions put the group in incredibly compromised positions within the first two rounds, and it killed 3 characters before they fled. Yes, the PCs did use some buffs (which were almost all concentration spells) before they entered the lair. This same encounter in 3e would have ended with a dead dragon inside two rounds as casters went nova and with all the ridiculous stacking buffs that would have been used beforehand to ensure the dragon couldn't touch them. That's not heroic or epic, its just boring.

So I don't buy your assertion that 5e monsters are weenies. Monsters haven't been this nasty since the early days of D&D.
 

Differentiation simply isn't handled by attack, but rather by abilities. The fighter is able to use a ton of different combat abilities at that level, as well as attack multiple times all at the same bonus. It makes them feel very powerful without letting them massively outclass anyone else in attack.
Which combat abilities would those be? For the champion I am seeing pretty much Attack or...Attack. The Battlemaster has a small handful of very limited use manoeuvres and the Eldritch Knight gets a handful of spells but it you wanted a casting melee warrior you were probably better off going Ranger, Paladin or Valor Bard.
 


I am guessing that you didn't participate in the playtest, in which magic boni on weapons and armor only reach +3- and those are artifacts.
I am guessing you didn't either as my magic item playtest document contains multiple non artefact +3 weapons such as the "very rare" +3 Defender or Dwarven Thrower.
 

Remove ads

Top