D&D 5E Replacing Use Magic Device
- Thread starter JEB
- Start date
JEB
Legend
Use Magic Device is the feature gained at 13th level by the Rogue's Thief archetype. (Player's Handbook, page 97.)
And no, it is not on the skill list anymore (which, as you might guess, I am perfectly fine with).
JEB
Legend
Keeping it simple, like the other Rogue abilities, I'm leaning towards a variation of the suggestion [MENTION=6693417]Authweight[/MENTION] made. So all, how does the below sound?
Improvise
By 13th level, you are experienced enough in your trade that you can craft the tools you need from any items that are available. You no longer require tools to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check that would use those tools.
Is that effective enough to be a replacement for Use Magic Device, or does it need to be better?
Improvise
By 13th level, you are experienced enough in your trade that you can craft the tools you need from any items that are available. You no longer require tools to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check that would use those tools.
Is that effective enough to be a replacement for Use Magic Device, or does it need to be better?
I'd say it was still just a little weak overall compared to the other 13th lvl abilities. This feels very situational whereas the use magic device can really be a defining staple of the character running around using wands, turning evil magic items back against their owners, activating the portal to help the party escape, emergency scrolls (as previously mentioned in another response) etc. Also, I think most good rogues will carry a set of tools and likely a backup... plus if anyone in the party has a criminal background they will likely obtain a set in case the primary lock picker/trap disable person is incapacitated or separated from the party. If they do have another skill requiring tools it doesn't seem likely very often that they would need them and not have any access to obtain them (though I could easily be wrong.)
Similarly, the Arcane Trickster ability means pretty much always being able to generate advantage / sneak attack vs important targets... also very powerful. The assassin one is a little weaker overall, but I think that is because the lower and higher abilities for the subclass are so powerful.
Of course just saying that I think it is lacking wouldn't be very helpful by itself so I'll throw in an idea or two. Consider expanding what you currently have to include proficiency with improvised weapons, or grant a free proficiency with tinkers tools and the ability to jury-rig crafted items from substitute items available (go full MacGyver) but the item only lasts for a variable length of time (rounds/minutes/hours). Of course such crafted items could also have significantly disastrous or impressive effects when used/operated when a 1 or 20 is rolled respectively.
Other ways to expand the current theme you have going could be substituting / enhancing traps. Granted, the rules for traps are likely a DMG entry, but some rules in the interim could be used for players setting traps other than caltrops / hunting traps and the rogue ability could add to the DC of the save vs the trap or to the damage (but likely not both). It doesn't even need to be totally realistic (like MacGyver) as you already have the 'fast hands' rogues picking locks and disarming traps as a bonus action within a 6-second initiative pass. Whatever you decide, make it fun and useful as the use magic device option you are removing is definitely one that can currently be both those things.
Edit: this is assuming that your initial idea of the power still requires proficiency with the tools you are substituting... if you are saying that a rogue basically is automatically proficient with all tools for all skills and able to perform all such actions (with proficiency bonus) without the tools... then disregard and it is plenty powerful already.
As a frequent player of Rogues built around UMD, I think almost everything suggested so far is not even close to good enough to replace Rogues being able to activate all magic items.
It's incredibly useful to be able to draw a wand and heal yourself and others, to draw another and fire off "Lesser Orbs of Acid" at enemies (and do sneak attack damage), and then drop both to pull out a third wand and make yourself invisible.
It's incredibly useful to be able to draw a wand and heal yourself and others, to draw another and fire off "Lesser Orbs of Acid" at enemies (and do sneak attack damage), and then drop both to pull out a third wand and make yourself invisible.
dwayne
Adventurer
I know the old one had a miss fire and a chance for it not to work, so adding this in might be a way to off set the ability so its not over used. Or have them make a charisma roll vs a DC based off how hard it would be saying a word and pointing a wand, easy were as reading a scroll and reciting an spell hard, then if failed roll on wild magic table under sorcerer or make your own based off the type of device or how hard it was can be as simple or complex as you like. I for One will maybe go with a DC roll vs charisma and on a failed roll roll on the wild mage table and adjust the result as to fit the item or pick it to fit.
JEB
Legend
Thanks for the feedback, all! I was actually looking at the Assassin's Level 13 feature as a benchmark, so while I considered making Improvise a "proficiency in all tools" or "build temporary equipment of any kind from scratch" power, I'm worried that's overcompensating. (And I'm avoiding traps because we don't have the DMG yet. Otherwise, agreed that'd be great.)
So, that leaves improvised weapons, which seems almost as good as improvising any equipment, and seems to make the most sense as an extension. Hence, this mildly modified new version:
Improvise
By 13th level, you are experienced enough in your trade that you can craft the tools and weapons you need from any items that are available. You no longer need tools to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check that normally uses those tools. You also gain proficiency with improvised weapons.
So, that leaves improvised weapons, which seems almost as good as improvising any equipment, and seems to make the most sense as an extension. Hence, this mildly modified new version:
Improvise
By 13th level, you are experienced enough in your trade that you can craft the tools and weapons you need from any items that are available. You no longer need tools to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check that normally uses those tools. You also gain proficiency with improvised weapons.
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