D&D 5E 5e, bringing the importance of environment back to the front?

[aramis erak]

My warrior players are making tactical decisions - decisions like "Do I stay engaged with 4 HP so the Rogues can kill him, or do I retreat and nerf them?"

 

[Sadras]

Yes and no. I think generally the more rules there are, the more we want to try to do things within them. 5e being less regimented than 4e gives the impression you can color outside the lines. It really all comes down to what the DM will roll with, regardless of what rules you use.

The answer is yes if going by your resultant explanation. If 5e encourages more creative play because of its rules light system (which is what you had implied), then this agrees 100% with the OP. There is not yes and no.
As for what the DM allows, I think you're putting too much emphasis on the DM whereas the OP is speaking of creative utilisation of the environment via the PC, not the DM. The DM can certainly encourage it in either system, but the OP is speaking of 5e the system.

 

[Celtavian]

I am finding that we don't consult the rulebooks as often for situations like this because there is nothing to consult. So when a player comes up with an effective way to handle an encounter that rules don't cover, we roll with it if itsounds reasonable. Not sure if the system encourages this type of behavior, but I will say that it discourages it less. A lot of players don't even bother to try if they know the game is going to be slowed as the DM consults several different books to figure out how something outside the box works. In 5E the DM figures it out without a book or hand waves it if it sounds reasonable. This makes the game go faster and keeps everything moving in a more dynamic fashion than when you had to open a book to figure out small details involving movement, fire damage, and the like.

Also the lack of ability of casters and players to end encounters with insane damage or spells requires players to think of alternate, non-magical means to gain an advantage in an encounter. This definitely benefits the skill guys like the rogue or ranger and creative players that like to think outside the box finding interesting ways to take advantage of the environment or the tools at their disposal.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Also the lack of ability of casters and players to end encounters with insane damage or spells requires players to think of alternate, non-magical means to gain an advantage in an encounter. This definitely benefits the skill guys like the rogue or ranger and creative players that like to think outside the box finding interesting ways to take advantage of the environment or the tools at their disposal.

I think you really hit on an interesting point here. It seems (again, just my anecdotal experience) that in a game like 3e, players spent the effort to stack as many bonuses as they could from as many powers/spells as they could as the default reaction to a combat scenario. 5e doesn't have this stacking, so there's no need on the players to spend their efforts on that, but now focus on the environment itself to maximize their chances.

 

[Nebulous]

In recent editions, looking back, I think that probably would have been handled with more powers. I.e., abilities to control the battlefield via trips, shoves, pulls, etc in combination with AoO attacks. Something easier for the player to fall back on since it's right there on your character sheet. With 5e, there aren't nearly as many tactical powers or rules yet, so we found ourselves thinking more outside of the box like we did with AD&D.

Is it just me that noticed this?

In general i agree, i think that's right. This is particularly true of new players to D&D. I had a new player in 4e, and she always had her nose in the power cards and wouldn't do anything not printed there. Naturally, she thought (or expected) that's how you play.

Personally, in 5e, I've already witnessed the players thinking outside the box far more and using tactics and quick thinking to stay ahead of the baddies, not relying on powers. PCs can do amazing things with flasks of oil...

 

[Nebulous]

And one thing that really worried me when i was first hearing of Adv/Dis a long, long while back: i thought it was going to be the whole cornerstone of the new edition and every special ability and spell would hinge on this bonus or penalty. But so far, it doesn't really come up super often, and when it does it is very important and meaningful, so it doesn't feel hackneyed, and for that i am very, very glad.

 

[Mistwell]

In our playtests and on through the actual release I've found player creativity has played a MUCH greater role in our games than previously.

Whatever the reason, they're thinking through encounters and finding ways to overcome them that as a DM I never anticipated. We had a Wyvern that should have been a really nasty solo challenge for them die before it even got a turn due to very good planning by the players. And my players found a way to use some flesh golems against a room full of first trolls, and then manticores, in another totally unexpected way. They used a trap on some other creatures, negotiated with some bullywugs to the detriment of some kobolds, ran some ambushes with clever use of a web spell, and all sorts of interesting tactics.

It's not that they never did this in prior editions - it's just that they seem to be doing it a lot more now. And I think it's from a general sense of not looking at their character sheet all the time to see what's possible, but instead focusing more on the challenge itself.

 

[The_Gneech]

I think you really hit on an interesting point here. It seems (again, just my anecdotal experience) that in a game like 3e, players spent the effort to stack as many bonuses as they could from as many powers/spells as they could as the default reaction to a combat scenario. 5e doesn't have this stacking, so there's no need on the players to spend their efforts on that, but now focus on the environment itself to maximize their chances.

This is definitely true! With the preponderance of buffs going away (and don't let the front door hit you on the backside, guys), the players are looking at positional and situational factors to get the upper hand.

-The Gneech

 

[aramis erak]

Rules light is a two edged sword. Rules light games can become VERY bland if the players aren't being creative. On the other hand, creative narration isn't constrained by the mechanics, so it lends itself well to extensive color.

 

[Rhenny]

In our playtests and on through the actual release I've found player creativity has played a MUCH greater role in our games than previously.

Whatever the reason, they're thinking through encounters and finding ways to overcome them that as a DM I never anticipated. We had a Wyvern that should have been a really nasty solo challenge for them die before it even got a turn due to very good planning by the players. And my players found a way to use some flesh golems against a room full of first trolls, and then manticores, in another totally unexpected way. They used a trap on some other creatures, negotiated with some bullywugs to the detriment of some kobolds, ran some ambushes with clever use of a web spell, and all sorts of interesting tactics.

It's not that they never did this in prior editions - it's just that they seem to be doing it a lot more now. And I think it's from a general sense of not looking at their character sheet all the time to see what's possible, but instead focusing more on the challenge itself.

I have experienced the same thing. During the playtest, I remember one game where the players lured a Gelatinous Cube into a pile of lime. (I let my NASA Scientist player convince me that the base of the lime and the acid of the Gel cube would definitely lead to some fizzle and pop).

Just a few weeks ago, my players found two petrified trolls and a lever in a room. They opened another door in the room that let a flesh golem and a medusa enter to attack them. Then they pulled the lever which ended up spraying something down onto the trolls so that they unpetrified. Then they left the room and let the two trolls fight with the golem and the medusa. They killed the golem, but the medusa stoned one again and killed the other. Then she got a torch and burned it. (This was in Ghosts of Dragonspear - Ambergul Estate).

I think one reason that my players are inspired to do things like this is because with 5e, they are encountering creatures that they would not be able to defeat in a straight up fight. They have to be creative or they have to run.