D&D 5E Magic Initiate feat spell + Warlock spell slot?

[green_destiny]

Hi EN World,

So Magic Initiate feat allows my warlock to learn 2 cantrips and a 1st level spell from any other class (long rest before you can cast it again).

My question is, for that 1st level spell from another class, since my warlock learned it, can I use my warlock spell slot to cast instead? which would allow me to regain that warlock spell slot after a short rest?

If Yes, after spending my warlock spell slot to cast that 1st level spell, I can cast it again and use its original spell slot (which takes a long rest to regain it back)?

I know its my DM to decide on how he will interpret it, but I'd like to make a good argument.
thanks in advance!

 

[Henrix]

Yes, it doesn't matter where the spell slot comes from, as long as it is of appropriate level.

D&D makes no difference between one spell slot and another.

 

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

The wording on this one could be better, it doesn't seem as if the spell chosen is considered a new 'known' spell for your Warlock. However, it does say 'you learn it and can cast it once per day', but it also says that after you cast it, you must complete a long rest before you cast it again. I suppose the last part may only apply to the 1/day cast, but probably open to DM interpretation. The and in the feat description doesn't necessarily mean 'in addition to' though. Mike Mearls says that 'it wouldn't break anything' here. Note that I'm interpreting the feat in the most minimalist fashion possible, I think most DMs would let you get away with it.

 

[PnPgamer]

Does this apply to racial spells as well?

 

[ccooke]

It makes more sense, to me, that spells you know are spells you know.

For instance, my ruling is that Tieflings who have spell slots through their class are able to cast Hellish Rebuke. It's flavourful and hasn't been at all overpowered in practice.

 

[Ahrimon]

I like to think of it as you know the spell and can cast it with your spell slots like normal and in addition you can cast it once a day at 1st level. But I haven't tried it in play so I can't comment on whether that's too generous or not.

 

[steeldragons]

I would be inclined to say no, citing the "the specific trumps the general" guideline.

The feat, Magic Initiate, is the specific. The Warlock class abilities are the [more] general.

The specific says you can cast it once between long rests. It's not vague about that. This is something the feat lets you do separate/outside your normal class abilities [the general].

The Magic Initiate choice, presumably, is not a spell of your own class but some different one you wouldn't normally have access to. So why/how would your Warlock casting know-how apply to this special "other" magic which your patron did not grant you. Of course, it could be fluffed that you did get it from your patron....but that doesn't change what the Feat actually says.

The other thing is what the specific actually does say. Namely, you learn it and can cast it once between long rests...at its lowest level. So any ole spell slot can't be used. You have to cast it at/as a 1st level spell. If you have a spare 2nd or 3rd level Warlock spell slot, that doesn't help you [or so I would say].

I see the wiggle room/room for interpretation and could understand why one would say, "yes it's fine."...and it may be/probably is. But I'd think it is clearly not intended to be a yes. Its intended to be something extra/special/unusual you can do...once and at it's lowest level per long rest. The feat, the specific, is quite clear.

 

[Ahrimon]

[MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] I definitely see where you are going with your interpretation. I would like to point out that the designers have clarified that warlock spell slots can be used for things like Smites, sorcerer points, and the ranger thing so they're not completely cut off from regular spell slots. They're only different for the purposes of determining your number of slots when multiclassing.

I also put more emphasis on the portion of the feat that says that you learn the spell and I separate that from the part about casting once per day.

But there really isn't a right or wrong, I just wanted to point out the bit about the warlock spell slots. Happy gaming!

 

[Sacrosanct]

I would be inclined to say no, citing the "the specific trumps the general" guideline.
.

This is my interpretation as well. The feat is very specific. I would rule that you can't use it as a warlock spell slot just like you can't use it in a higher level slot. For example, if you're a warlock who gets that feat to learn cure wounds, you aren't able to cast cure wounds in a higher level slot than 1st because you can cast your other spells at a higher level slot. I don't think they intended to be able to use this loophole to do that because otherwise that's one hell of a powerful feat.

 

[Pauper]

Note that Magic Initiate doesn't actually require you to possess any spellcasting class levels or spell slots to be able to cast the spell granted by the feat -- as such, I'd rule that the spell learned via Magic Initiate doesn't use spell slots when cast as listed in the feat.

The question then becomes, does 'learning' the spell mean that it gets added to the list of spells known for the classes that have such lists, and if so, is it still restricted to being cast at level 1 when cast from that list? I could see a DM ruling that it does, which would mean that a warlock would likely be unable to cast such a spell outside of the manner specified in the feat, as they won't have a spell slot of the appropriate level once they reach level 3 (so only a human warlock who took Magic Initiate as a bonus feat would have the proper spell slots).

In an Organized Play setting, I'd rule that the spell gained via Magic Initiate could only be cast in the manner specified in the feat -- no use of spell slots to cast that spell. It probably wouldn't break the game to allow the use of spell slots, but for simplicity's sake, I'd go with the ruling 'as written'.