D&D 5E Player character level -> challenge rating cheat sheet?

[redrick]

Has anybody put together a table or rule of thumb for average challenge rating for a given character level? I realize that there is probably some variation based on class features, optimization, etc, but is it possible to say, "A 7th level PC is usually CR [x]?"

I ask for situations where I want to create an NPC using player class guidelines, but don't feel like going through all the steps of calculating a given creature challenge rating. Which is maybe dumb, but, whatever. I'm fine with being off by a CR, because I tend to eyeball CR and encounter balance anyway.

 

[Sunseeker]

You just need to reverse the situation, CR is the challenge rating of a monster to a party of the given level. IE: a CR12 monster is expecting to go up against an normal size (4-5 characters) party of level 12 players. So the "CR" of a player is essentially 1/4th of the party level, all things being equal, the CR of a PC should be 1/4th of their level.

It's worth noting of course, that just like monsters, the environment you fight a pc-styled foe in can make them much, much more dangerous.

 

[bganon]

CR is not really additive, so I don't think that's a great guideline.

The main issue is that NPCs built with PC rules make for weird encounters. Offensively, a PC's CR tends to a few above their level (a level 1 fighter is probably around CR 1 in terms of overall DPR but CR 4 in terms of attack bonus), but PCs' defensive CR is very weird because PCs have far fewer HP than monsters "should", but much higher AC. A 20th level barbarian would technically only be CR 9 or so by hp, but by AC they're off the chart.

You're supposed to basically average all these together to get final CR, which will tend to be around the PCs level (maybe plus a few). But the numbers are so far apart it basically means that NPCs built with PC rules may give results wildly off from their "CR" depending on how the encounter goes. Basically such an NPC will hit hard like a monster of its CR, but abnormally high AC combined with abnormally low HP means the fight will be very swingy. Lob the right debuff and the "proper" CR might be more like half NPC level.

 

[redrick]

The main issue is that NPCs built with PC rules make for weird encounters. Offensively, a PC's CR tends to a few above their level (a level 1 fighter is probably around CR 1 in terms of overall DPR but CR 4 in terms of attack bonus), but PCs' defensive CR is very weird because PCs have far fewer HP than monsters "should", but much higher AC. A 20th level barbarian would technically only be CR 9 or so by hp, but by AC they're off the chart.

Yes, that's what I've found in the few instances that I've used PC stats for NPCs. They hit hard, but they go down fast. Maybe I just need to re-read the NPC section of the DMG, but statting up NPCs is currently the most tedious part of 5e for me. I usually start with one of the included NPC stat-blocks, and adjust HD and proficiency as needed, but there just aren't that many sample NPCs to choose from, so it always feels a little dissatisfying.

 

[DaveDash]

Yes, that's what I've found in the few instances that I've used PC stats for NPCs. They hit hard, but they go down fast. Maybe I just need to re-read the NPC section of the DMG, but statting up NPCs is currently the most tedious part of 5e for me. I usually start with one of the included NPC stat-blocks, and adjust HD and proficiency as needed, but there just aren't that many sample NPCs to choose from, so it always feels a little dissatisfying.

This is why I build NPC's like monsters now.

Here are some examples:

TOOMAN THENDRIK
Male Drow Cleric of Ghaundar – chaotic evil.
Armor Class 19 (Scale mail +1, Shield)
Hit Points 176
Speed: 30ft

STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
14 (+2) 14 (+2) 16 (+3) 13 (+1) 19(+4) 18 (+4)
Saving Throws Con +7, Wis +8, Cha +8
Skills Insight +8, Perception +8, Religion +5, Stealth +5
Senses darkvision 120ft., passive Perception 18
Languages Elvish, Undercommon
Challenge 11 (7200)

Fey Ancestry. The drow has advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and magic can’t put the drow to sleep.
Innate Spellcasting. The drow’s innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC16). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: Dancing Lights
1/day each: darkness, faerie fire, levitate (self only)

Spellcasting. The drow is a 15th level spellcaster. Its spellcasting ability is Wisdom (spell save DC16, +8 to hit with spell attacks). The drow has the following cleric spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): guidance, poison spray, resistance, spare the dying, thaumaturgy
1st level (4 slots): bane, divine favour, shield of faith, cure wounds
2nd level (3 slots): enhanced ability, hold person, melf’s acid arrow
3rd level (3 slots): bestow curse, dispel magic, protect from elements
4th level (3 slots): Evards Black Tentacles, freedom of movement
5th level (2 slots): cloudkill, harm
6th level (1 slots): blade barrier, word of recall
7th level (1 slots): divine word
8th level (1 slot): holy aura

ACTIONS
Multiattack. The drow makes two warhammer attacks
Warhammer. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) piercing damage plus 17 (5d6) poison damage.
Summon Ooze (1/Day). The drow attempts to magically summon a Black Pudding with a 30 percent chance of success. If the attempt fails, the drow takes 1d10 acid damage. Otherwise the summoned demon appears in an unoccupied space within 60ft of its summoner, acts as an ally of its summoner, It remains for 10 minutes, until it or its summoner dies, or until its summoner dismisses it as an action.

SOLOM NED’RAZAK
Male Drow Archmage – Neutral Evil
Armor Class 20 (Elven Chain Shirt +1, Ring of Protection +1, Cloak of Protection +1)
Hit Points 251
Speed: 30ft

STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
10 (+0) 16 (+3) 14 (+2) 20 (+5) 14(+2) 18 (+4)

Saving Throws Strength +2, Dexterity +5, Wisdom +10, Charisma +12, Constitution +10, Intelligence +13
Skills Arcana +13, Deception +9, Perception +7, Stealth +8, History +13
Senses darkvision 120ft., passive Perception 17
Languages Elvish, Undercommon
Challenge 16 (15000)

Fey Ancestry. The drow has advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and magic can’t put the drow to sleep.
Innate Spellcasting. The drow’s innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC17). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: Dancing Lights
1/day each: darkness, faerie fire, levitate (self only)

Magic Resistance (Ring of Spell Turning). Solom has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects. In addition, if he rolls a 20 on his saving throw and the spell is 7th level or lower, the spell instead targets the original caster.

Spell Mastery. Solom chooses a 1st and 2nd level spell that he has prepared, he can cast them without expending a spell slot.
Signature Spell. Solom has mastery over the following third level spells, he always has them prepared, and can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. Counterspell and dispel magic
 
Spellcasting. Solom is a 20th level spellcaster. His spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC18, +10 to hit with spell attacks). He has the following Wizard spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): mage hand, poison spray, minor illusion, ray of frost, fire bolt
1st level (4 slots): mage armour, shield*, magic missile, thunderwave
2nd level (3 slots): see invisibility, mirror image, scorching ray*
3rd level (3 slots): fireball, blink, protection from energy; dispel magic and counterspell as signature spells
4th level (3 slots): greater invisibility, fire shield, banishment
5th level (3 slots): wall of force, bigby’s hand, hold monster
6th level (2 slot): chain lightning, disintegrate
7th level(2 slot): etherealness, force cage
8th level(1 slot): feeblemind, power word stun
9th level(1 slot): foresight
*Spell mastery spells

ACTIONS
Staff. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage plus 1d6 poison damage.
Summon Demon (1/Day). Solom magically summons a quasit, or attempts to summon a horned devil with a 50% chance of success. The summoned devil appears in an unoccupied space within 60 feet of its summoner, acts as an ally of its summer, and can’t summon other demons. It remains for 10 minutes, until it or its summoner dies, or until its summoner dismisses it as an action.

EQUIPMENT
Potion of Cure Wounds (5th level), Ring of Protection +1 (attuned), wand of magic missile (see DMG), Boccobs blessed book, diamond dust (250gp), Ruby Dust (1500gp), Elven Chain Shirt, Ring of Spell Turning (attuned), Cloak of Protection +1 (attuned)

ZEDARR T’SARRAN
Male Drow Dark Paladin of Kiaransalee – chaotic evil.
Armor Class 22 (Drow Plate + 1, Shield, Defensive Fighting Style)
Hit Points 135
Speed: 30ft

STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
20 (+5) 16 (+3) 16 (+3) 10 (+0) 12(+1) 14 (+2)
Saving Throws Wis +6, Cha +6
Skills Athletics +10, Perception +6, Intimidate +10, Stealth +8 (disadv)
Damage Resistances resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from non-magical weapons
Senses darkvision 120ft., passive Perception 16
Languages Elvish, Undercommon
Challenge 13 (10,000)

Fey Ancestry. The drow has advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and magic can’t put the drow to sleep.
Innate Spellcasting. The drow’s innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC114). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: Dancing Lights
1/day each: darkness, faerie fire, levitate (self only)

Spellcasting. The drow is a 18th level spellcaster. Its spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC15, +7 to hit with spell attacks). The drow has the following Paladin spells prepared:
1st level (4 slots): hellish rebuke, inflict wounds, shield of faith, compelled duel
2nd level (3 slots): crown of madness, darkness, magic weapon
3rd level (3 slots): animate dead, bestow curse, dispel magic
4th level (3 slots): blight, confusion, death ward
5th level (1 slots): contagion, dominate person

Dreadful Aspect (1/short rest). As an action, the paladin channels the darkest emotions and focuses them into a burst of magical menace. Each creature of the paladin’s choice within 30 feet of the paladin must make a wisdom saving throw (DC15) if it can see the paladin. On a failed save, the target is frightened of the paladin for 1 minute. If a creature frightened by this effect ends its turn more than 30 feet away from the paladin, it can attempt another Wisdom saving throw to end the effect on it.

Aura of Hate. The paladin, as well as any fiends or undead within 30 feet of the paladin, gain a bonus to melee weapon damage equal to +2. This has already been factored into the Paladins weapon damage.
Improved Divine Smite. Whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage. You can also expend a paladin spell slot to deal additional radiant damage to the target on top of your divine smite. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8. The damage increases 1d8 if the target is a celestial or fey.

ACTIONS
Multiattack. The paladin makes two dire flail attacks.

Flail. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8+7) bludgeoning damage, plus 10 (3d6) poison damage, plus 22 (5d8) radiant damage

EQUIPMENT
Drow Plate +1, Flail +1

 

[Fanaelialae]

This is what I use. I use it the other way around though (calculating the equivalent level of monster who work with the party). It's worked fine so far, but the highest I've used in play so far has been CR 3.

CR-----Level
1/4----1
1/2----2
1-------3
2-------4
3-------5
4-------7
5-------9
6-------11
7-------12
8-------14
9-------16
10-----18
11-----19
12-----20

 

[bganon]

Yes, that's what I've found in the few instances that I've used PC stats for NPCs. They hit hard, but they go down fast. Maybe I just need to re-read the NPC section of the DMG, but statting up NPCs is currently the most tedious part of 5e for me. I usually start with one of the included NPC stat-blocks, and adjust HD and proficiency as needed, but there just aren't that many sample NPCs to choose from, so it always feels a little dissatisfying.

After looking at the table a bit I came up with this.

Since the biggest difference is in defense, if you make an NPC from the PC rules you might get very roughly CR == level by making the following adjustments: 1) Double hp and add 50. 2) Don't give the NPC feats or ability score increases at all. 3) Give the NPC the crappiest armor of whatever type they can use (light/medium/heavy), only bumping up to better armor every 5 levels or so. For NPCs with class features that pump AC, give them suboptimal stats (12 Wis for a Monk or whatnot).

Might consider also just stripping away most of the subclass abilities to keep things light. This should make NPC creation pretty fast. I haven't tested any of this out yet, though.

 

[redrick]

This is why I build NPC's like monsters now.

Here are some examples:

DaveDash, did you build these NPCs from scratch (using DMG monster guidelines) or did you base them off of something else? I know one option is to take a CR-appropriate monster from the MM that seems to have the right offense/defense levels and then start swapping out features and traits with class-like abilities.

After looking at the table a bit I came up with this.

Since the biggest difference is in defense, if you make an NPC from the PC rules you might get very roughly CR == level by making the following adjustments: 1) Double hp and add 50. 2) Don't give the NPC feats or ability score increases at all. 3) Give the NPC the crappiest armor of whatever type they can use (light/medium/heavy), only bumping up to better armor every 5 levels or so. For NPCs with class features that pump AC, give them suboptimal stats (12 Wis for a Monk or whatnot).

Might consider also just stripping away most of the subclass abilities to keep things light. This should make NPC creation pretty fast. I haven't tested any of this out yet, though.

Bganon, I'm gonna try that out and see what sorts of NPCs I come up with. I'm currently running the Expert D&D module Castle Amber, which contains almost as many NPCs as monsters, and most of the monsters are not in the 5e MM. (Living Statues. Thouls. Rakastas. Lupines. Killer Trees. Aranea. Bone Golems. etc.) Converting the monsters is a breeze — I add a couple HD to the D&D HD number, eyeball the AC, set attack damage based on comparative challenge and give them a cool trait or two. They might not be exactly the same as the original, but they work. Converting the NPCs, especially spellcasters, has been a bit more challenging, and I've gotten myself into trouble a few times where I've declined to stat out an NPC in the hopes that the conversation will stay cordial, and then one of my belligerent PCs decides to pop a few eldritch blasts in her face.

Ah well.

 

[DaveDash]

I had a CR in mind, and then built them from scratch to match that CR using the DMG guidelines.

 

[Athinar]

Excel spreadsheet that does the calculations CR

I made an Excel spreadsheet that does the calculations (from DMG)