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D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

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3) Nothing Much to Look Forward To/Lack of Product Diversity. Of all of these, I think I am the most upset about this one. Folks at Wizards have said they want to focus on adventures. Ok fine. Where are they? To date, one came with the beginner's set and there was one campaign in two books. What if I don't want to play in that campaign? What if I want to play something else? The Tomb of Elemental Evil campaign is coming up; what if I don't want that either. What if I know my group can't handle a long campaign and instead want a series of short adventures with the same characters. There are no 32 page stand alone adventures to download, no dungeon magazine to subscribe to. That is game mastering help that the game seriously lacks right now. GMs not getting the help they need will make them look to other games. Personally, I have never been an adventure reader (some people are and more power to them). I have always been a setting reader. There is no setting material for this edition to read. I get a full campaign setting takes a long time to write. But what about a 32 page setting book that told what area is like for the Horde of the Dragon Queen campaign, or the Elemental Evil campaign. I might not run the adventures, but I can use the setting to make my own. Why not that? Without something to fuel my imagination, I am bored and am going to look elsewhere. Now lets have a frank discussion, Wizards has said they want to focus on adventures because releasing too many splat books (specifically books filled with player crunch options) made the system far too heavy for later development and killed it. While I understand that and to a degree agree, you've swung too far the other way. Some players at the table are those optimizers that do not have anything to look forward to and will look elsewhere. All in all, to keep the varying types of players and game masters happy, there has to be a balance. At present, there isn't any balance. All the products out there, beyond the core 3 books, are geared for the long-term GM.

This is the point that bothers me the most, not in what Wizards is actually doing, but in how entitled this mindset is. This game has barely been out for half a year. They produced three 300 page books, two 200 page books, and a basic adventure box. They have another adventure coming in just a couple of months, but you already want more? You're already complaining about the lack of material for a game that hasn't been out a year? Not to mention that not only do you want more, you also want variety, because man, what if I don't want to play what's coming out? Wouldn't that just make this game the worst?

My problem with this post isn't that it has all bad points. Yeah, Hasbro and Wizards flubbed up the digital tools. Yes, it would be nice to know what's coming out after their next book. But none of this means you're fed up with the game. You're fed up with the publishers. The game itself has nothing to do with these points. This isn't a video game where once you play through it there's not much to do other than play it again. This isn't a movie where you see it once and there's not much to be gained from watching it again. It's a role playing game where the only thing that matters is the basic mechanics and your imagination. I doubt very highly that your group or you in particular has exhausted every option, every facet of the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and the Dungeon Master's Guide by now. I highly doubt that you've run every single adventure on the D&D Classics, which are all very easy to transfer to 5E. There are people who played and continue to play AD&D and BECMI for years without any new releases simply because that's what an RPG allows them to do more than any other medium of entertainment.

So yeah, great, you want more books to satisfy your intense lust for buying campaign settings. How about you play the game while you wait?
 

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Playing D&D is probably what a lot of people do the least and it has been like that for some time.

What you do with a D&D books is:

0) Sometimes research it.
1) Buy/sell it. For some it stops there with collection.
2) Read it.
3) Analyse it
4) Talk about it.
5) Prepare a game with some of its info.
6) Use some of that info in a game.

#6 is probably what happens the least. There is nothing wrong with that. But the rest, say reading and talking about it, still needs to be cattered to. Some want to read the new Forgotten Realms Campaign setting. Others want to theory craft the new fighter feats in Complete Sword User. Others just talk about how the Beholder art is awesome and the new history of beholders just rocks. Plus there is that satisfaction of buying the fresh new book. None of those can be done right now. This is what people are complaining about. At least in part.

I just honestly don't care much about how their release schedule affects collectors and readers, really anyone other than the players, and my game specifically. So their light release schedule really fits how I'd like the game to evolve, hopefully avoiding power creep and bloat. I get others have a different view.
 

But you implied (at least as I read it) that a 5E "book of dwarves" would reduce how much you "dig" 5E. Is this accurate?
The core 3 will still be the core three, right?

It may if it is just a power booster for dwarfs, followed by a power booster book for elves, etc. I'm just not into the typical power creep when they are constantly putting out more options books. It depends, but I'm really not wanting Paizo 2 though I understand some want that. I'm fine with the core three, plus supporting materials that just uses the core three, adventures that just use the core three, a setting book that just uses the core three, etc. But if you have all these other books don't you want to reference them in other materials to get players to buy a new 40 dollar book to maximize their value? I guess I don't look at 5e and think "this game is needs a lot more stuff to it". Its pretty complete as it is.

To summarize my views on this whole thread I get why people want more stuff, more options, more books to read, to collect. I"m fine with a smaller set and less bloat. I think the game will be better for it at the table. I could be wrong and WOTC may go all nuts and in 2017 PHB4 is coming out. I kind of hope not though.
 

There is only one gripe I really have is the people who say "the game is only out a few months." I am sorry. That is wholly factually incorrect. For those of us in the playtest we have been basically playing the 5e chassis for more than 2 years. Even if you only count "official" releases, starter set and PHB came out this time last year. That is when 5E released... That is when the game became playable by the masses. I am sorry, the MM and the DMG add much needed core mechanics to the game, but the GAME has been OUT AND PLAYABLE since PHB. And that was the POINT of PHB coming first. It is OVERDUE for more content. But we shouldnt begrudge the company for trying a new approach, and wading in slowly.

I'm sorry, but you are wholly and factually incorrect. The PHB released at Gencon, last August. It's been out six months. The playtest was going on longer than that, but the PHB has been out six months. The free, basic rules came out about a month earlier. There were a number of adventures released to go with the playtest.
 

Playing D&D is probably what a lot of people do the least and it has been like that for some time.

What you do with a D&D books is:

0) Sometimes research it.
1) Buy/sell it. For some it stops there with collection.
2) Read it.
3) Analyse it
4) Talk about it.
5) Prepare a game with some of its info.
6) Use some of that info in a game.

#6 is probably what happens the least. There is nothing wrong with that. But the rest, say reading and talking about it, still needs to be cattered to. Some want to read the new Forgotten Realms Campaign setting. Others want to theory craft the new fighter feats in Complete Sword User. Others just talk about how the Beholder art is awesome and the new history of beholders just rocks. Plus there is that satisfaction of buying the fresh new book. None of those can be done right now. This is what people are complaining about. At least in part.

Alright, look I know there's been a few snarky comments going back and forth over Wizards's release cycle in a couple of threads the last few weeks, and while I don't think I was particularly antagonistic in any of my posts I'll retroactively apologize now if I was because I seriously think I've figured out exactly why Wizards is not catering to your tastes.

You've perfectly summed up the uses for a D&D book in a nutshell. A LOT of players buy books they'll never use in a campaign; they're a martial character but they've picked up the Complete Book of Spells and plan out the ultimate wizard for the next campaign they play in - at which point they end up playing a paladin using options from Divine Heroes because it's going to be an undead-centric campaign and there's already a cleric of life, or whatever.

It's even worse for DMs - very few get to run more than one ongoing campaign at a time, and even if you're lucky to have a lot of rotating groups to DM for, you'll never use most of the stuff you touch. And the stuff you do prepare for a game, most of it won't be used unless you've got them strictly on rails - players like to go left when you were expecting them to go right, they kill important quest NPCs, they get TPKed by owlbears at level two - stuff like that.

You're right, #6 is the thing that happens the least, but that was alright in 3rd and 4th Edition - folks still bought the books with the aim of playing with that material some day, and there are plenty of theorycrafters, optimizers and world-builders who might not ever sit down at a table and play but they were buying books so Wizards was happy to sell them to them.

The model has changed now.Today, the only thing Wizards cares about is #6. Sure, obviously you need to read the material and prepare to run it as well, but they aren't interested in customers who aren't looking to play D&D. I mean, they'll take your money if you want to buy what they're putting out, but even buying books is only of secondary concern to actually having people play the game - the basic rules are all anyone really needs, and those are completely free.

Wizards doesn't care about books sales anymore,, which means the theorycrafters, optimizers and world-builders who bought books but never played games with them are no longer the demographic they're targeting. They want people playing, because players are engaged with the brand, and are likely to pick up a D&D video game or buy a ticket to see the D&D movie.

Which isn't to say that theorycrafters / optimizers and the like are unengaged, but there's no theorycrafting or optimizing to be found in a D&D movie so they're no longer being targeted as customers. I don't know what arrangement Hasbro has with Universal - maybe it's merchandizing based, maybe it's a cut of the gross - but even if it's just a straight check they're cut for the right to use the property to make a film, it'll be worth more than they'll see in a whole year of splatbook years. Seriously, pen and paper games are not that big an industry - even the biggest sharks in the TTRPG pond are tiny guppies next to even a mediocre box office gross, and video games are even bigger.

Casual D&D players who don't buy books other than the Player's Handbook (and there are plenty who never even buy that much) vastly outnumber the hardcore fans who buy all the books. Wizards is focusing on growing the number of casual players, with the lightest ruleset since the old Basic line, doubling down on Adventurers League initiatives and actively avoiding a "Wall of Books" that might intimidate newcomers. The more people they get to think, "Hey this D&D thing is actually pretty fun", or even "This is nerdy as hell, but my friends like it and I've had worse evenings" is a potential customer for the parts of the brand that actually will make money.

So that is why we're not seeing more stuff, and why they've scaled down the RPG staff to 8 folks. They'll put out a couple books a year to give people something to play, and maybe we'll see the return of Dungeon or Dragon, but apart from the occasional campaign setting book what you've seen so far is pretty much going to be it in terms of support for the pen and paper line, and that's far more than most tabletop games ever get, honestly.
 

I know I am not the only one. Heck, I know I am not the only one in my area. So, I am talking about it in the hopes that something will change.
I'm about 5 miles from you, and I agree. :)

The game itself is fine. Plays well. But once you leave the table, that's it. There's no sizzle to the steak, as it were.
 

The game itself is fine. Plays well. But once you leave the table, that's it.
Out of curiosity, what's supposed to happen away from the table? Outside of invested players plotting their characters next moves and a desperate, overworked DM trying to find new ways to confound, I mean entertain them (by writing new adventures/(re)filling the sandbox)?
 

This is the point that bothers me the most, not in what Wizards is actually doing, but in how entitled this mindset is. This game has barely been out for half a year. They produced three 300 page books, two 200 page books, and a basic adventure box. They have another adventure coming in just a couple of months, but you already want more? You're already complaining about the lack of material for a game that hasn't been out a year? Not to mention that not only do you want more, you also want variety, because man, what if I don't want to play what's coming out? Wouldn't that just make this game the worst?
I don't see how telling WotC "Shut up and take my money!" is entitled. It's just pointing out that their lack of communication as to their future products has negative knockoff effects as to the attitude of some of their customer base. Just as publishing a schedule of a book every month would have negative knockoff effects, just to a different constituency.

At this same point for 4e, (not quite apples to apples, I know, since the core books weren't staggered for 4e) we already had the 3 core books, Martial Power was on the way, and we knew that the FR Campaign Setting and Player's Book were coming, and that the Player's Book would have a new class. We also knew that at least 3 new hard covers would be coming out in 2009. For 3e, Sword and Fist was on the way, as well as the FRCS, a Forgotten Realms splat book (Magic of Faerun?), and the understanding that every class would be getting its own splat book. Plus the third party publishing was just beginning to gear up. There's nothing remotely similar to anticipate for 5e.
 

Out of curiosity, what's supposed to happen away from the table? Outside of invested players plotting their characters next moves and a desperate, overworked DM trying to find new ways to confound, I mean entertain them (by writing new adventures/(re)filling the sandbox)?
All the stuff we're doing online right here? Anticipating, basically. Feeding the metaconstruct of the larger D&D community.
 

Rules bloat killed some perfectly fine editions of D&D, so WotC planned to avoid rules bloat in order to create a longer edition cycle, as we have been asking for some years now. As a consequence, people complain for the lack of a full release schedule. It appears that having something to read is more important than having something to play. WotC just can't win.
 

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