I agree, but the AoO cannot happen because if you cast a spell you don't have reach for 10'.
If you try to replace the AoO with a spell then you no longer have Reach, therefore you do not have that AoO trigger condition available.
D&D 5E Warcaster, polearm master and learning to love the optimizing?
- Thread starter redrick
- Start date
I agree, but the AoO cannot happen because if you cast a spell you don't have reach for 10'.
If you try to replace the AoO with a spell then you no longer have Reach, therefore you do not have that AoO trigger condition available.
Kikuras
First Post
So you're saying the stack of events collapses once the replacement effect comes into play? Can you reference the rules on that? Either way, I can see what you're going for. You see the event as one continuously connected event that is self contained from start to finish. I read it as a series of smaller events that are independent of each other except where they connect. A string vs. a chain.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
You take the OA with a reach of 10', warcaster kicks in and replaces the weapon attack with a spell, which then doesn't have 10' reach, so if it is a spell with a range of touch or under 10' you could be in trouble, but otherwise you are fine.
Eejits logic that once you are casting a spell you are no longer have reach destroys that section of the feat entirely, because once you are casting a spell you are no longer making an OA, so you are not allowed to cast a spell to replace it, etc
Eejits logic that once you are casting a spell you are no longer have reach destroys that section of the feat entirely, because once you are casting a spell you are no longer making an OA, so you are not allowed to cast a spell to replace it, etc
It doesn't happen that way because you're never using your Polearm to make the OA in the first place. Your Warcaster training gives you the ability to get a spell off quickly when an opponent lets their guard down, polearm master lets you OA WITH the polearm while using the polearm.
You don't go through some silly convoluted series of events where you attack with the Polearm, otherwise you'd do polearm damage not spell damage.
The logic does not destroy either feat, but it certainly destroys that abusive combination, which is RAI by the designers.
You don't go through some silly convoluted series of events where you attack with the Polearm, otherwise you'd do polearm damage not spell damage.
The logic does not destroy either feat, but it certainly destroys that abusive combination, which is RAI by the designers.
Kikuras
First Post
I get the RAI as it has been clarified by the designers, I'd even agree with it. The question is whether or not the RAW allows it.
Edit: The RAW of the Polearm Master feat does not make the distinction you are describing.
The RAW of Reach weaponry does.
Kikuras
First Post
I'm not talking about reach, I'm talking about the rules that state that an AoO fails to trigger once it has been altered by War Caster or any other effect. Where is the rule that associates the spell with reach and NOT the AoO.
If it's an AoO at 10' it requires Reach, which requires it to be made with a Reach weapon. There's no other way to get an AoO at 10' (excepting True Polymorph into reach creature or whatever). Obviously you can use War Caster/PM/quarterstaff to AoO -> spell at 5'.
Kikuras
First Post
The RAW for War Caster requires ONLY that it be an AoO due to opponent movement. You labored interpolation of how an AoO applies and its connection to the eventual spell is a non-issue. It has no bearing on the resolution of the War Caster granted spell by the virtue that there is an AoO option.
You have to let go of the fixation on polearms. War Caster grants the option of replacing ALL AoOs caused by opponent movement with a spell. Period. No other factors. Nothing about polearms, swords, hammers, simple or martial. Just AoOs caused by opponent movement.
But certain types of AoO (PM Reach) have such specific triggers that if you replace them with a spell the AoO can no longer occur in the first place to be replaced.
Also to be precise War Caster does not require an AoO to be triggered by movement, it could work with one from another feature such as Mage Slayer, Sentinel, Opportunist.
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