D&D 5E Can someone please explain to me why there are still no PDFs for 5e core books?

[Sacrosanct]

I'm going to repeat this because it's been said at least three times and you seem to be ignoring it each time:

No one is talking about making a PDF of your own. The piracy is someone else making a PDF and distributing it. By advocating people go and "find a pdf copy and download it", you are advocating piracy. It really can't be any clearer than that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Who said anything about piracy? Certainly not me. We have different interpretations of fair use (as do the courts). I own all three physical copies. I choose to interpret fair use to say I can format shift. I also choose to see no difference between scanning it myself or having someone else do it for me, as long as it's for personal use.

this is exactly what I mean... you don't like a law so you try to justify breaking it... then claim not to be breaking the law, then claim when you tell others to do so that isn't what you said...

lets take another law and try that...


I rob a house...

Who said anything about Robbery? Certainly not me. We have different interpretations of ownership (as do the courts). I choose to interpret ownership to mean who needs it more I needed that flat screen TV and DVD player more.. I also choose to see no difference between buying it myself or having someone else do it for me, as long as it's for personal use...

wait what about killing someone?

Who said anything about murder? Certainly not me. We have different interpretations of life (as do the courts). I choose to interpret life to mean those I deem worthy to live. I also choose to see no difference between killing someone or having someone dye of natural causes... what' more natural then killing?

wait... I can reinterpret any law... rape blackmail arson murder theft speeding piracy...


SO what makes this expectable.... I mean even going just with property and theft...

I want a Nuke... I could google some info, take some science classes, fly around the world buying parts, and make some really shady deals with bad people to get the uranium... why wont the US govement just sell me one of there's... they must be stupid. If I buy one off a guy who stole one, or even if he gives it to me for free even though I know they don't sell them... That seems legal and AOK by your standards....

 

[Gecko85]

I'm going to repeat this because it's been said at least three times and you seem to be ignoring it each time:

No one is talking about making a PDF of your own. The piracy is someone else making a PDF and distributing it. By advocating people go and "find a pdf copy and download it", you are advocating piracy. It really can't be any clearer than that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not advocating anyone obtaining a PDF **of something they don't legally own**. That is the difference. You choose to use a narrower definition, and that's fine. Unfortunately, the laws were written long before there was even such a thing as digital distribution, and they're in dire need to revamping.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So, again, you can interpret fair use however you want. I'm going to interpret on the side of sanity. Using a PDF copy for personal non-commercial use of a hard copy book that I legally own is, to me (and some courts) most certainly not piracy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not advocating anyone obtaining a PDF **of something they don't legally own**. That is the difference. You choose to use a narrower definition, and that's fine. Unfortunately, the laws were written long before there was even such a thing as digital distribution, and they're in dire need to revamping.

yes you inturpt it as OK to break the law... that is the problem... you even know you are doing it. You know that it is illegal (if not wrong, although I do fall on the thingking it's wrong side) so at the very least you are suggesting illegal action


what laws DO you follow?

 

[Gecko85]

this is exactly what I mean... you don't like a law so you try to justify breaking it... then claim not to be breaking the law, then claim when you tell others to do so that isn't what you said...

lets take another law and try that...


I rob a house...

Who said anything about Robbery? Certainly not me. We have different interpretations of ownership (as do the courts). I choose to interpret ownership to mean who needs it more I needed that flat screen TV and DVD player more.. I also choose to see no difference between buying it myself or having someone else do it for me, as long as it's for personal use...

wait what about killing someone?

Who said anything about murder? Certainly not me. We have different interpretations of life (as do the courts). I choose to interpret life to mean those I deem worthy to live. I also choose to see no difference between killing someone or having someone dye of natural causes... what' more natural then killing?

wait... I can reinterpret any law... rape blackmail arson murder theft speeding piracy...


SO what makes this expectable.... I mean even going just with property and theft...

I want a Nuke... I could google some info, take some science classes, fly around the world buying parts, and make some really shady deals with bad people to get the uranium... why wont the US govement just sell me one of there's... they must be stupid. If I buy one off a guy who stole one, or even if he gives it to me for free even though I know they don't sell them... That seems legal and AOK by your standards....

Wow, talk about completely missing the point. None of your examples even remotely apply. I *own* the books. I paid money for them. They're currently in my backpack.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not advocating anyone obtaining a PDF **of something they don't legally own**. That is the difference.

LMAO, no dude. Whether or not you own a physical copy of something does not matter one bit on whether or not you can go get another format from other people--ie. distribution. It doesn't matter if you own a hard copy or not. If you're advocating someone to go get a digital copy of something from someone who is committing piracy, you are advocating piracy. It's literally that simple. I own dozens of AD&D modules. I cannot just go out and get all the pdf versions for free from some Joe Blow. That would be piracy. Your opinion doesn't matter. It certainly doesn't change the definition of things.

 

[Gecko85]

yes you inturpt it as OK to break the law... that is the problem... you even know you are doing it. You know that it is illegal (if not wrong, although I do fall on the thingking it's wrong side) so at the very least you are suggesting illegal action


what laws DO you follow?

Again, completely missing the point...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Wow, talk about completely missing the point. None of your examples even remotely apply. I *own* the books. I paid money for them. They're currently in my backpack.

witch means you can use them, you can even make a back up for personal use... you can not pirate *Where in this context it means shareing or using a sharing site to download a copy someon other then you bought*

what is the difference...

 

[Paraxis]

Joe and Bill are neighbors, they both play D&D together on Saturday nights.
Both Joe and Bill each own a copy of the Player's Handbook for 5th edition.
Joe purchases a second copy takes it apart and feeds it through a high quality scanner, he spends the time making an ocr pdf of the book. Has Joe done something illegal or immoral at this point?

Joe knowing that Bill would appreciate a high quality searchable pdf for his tablet to use on the go, decides to give Bill a copy of the pdf file he made. Has Joe done something illegal or immoral now? Does it matter that Joe owns two copies of the phb so making two pdfs seems reasonable right? Does it matter that Bill owns a physical copy of the book?

Consider maybe Bill helped Joe scan some of those pages into the computer, does that matter? Does it matter if he helped make 5% of the pdf or 50% of it?

The rest of the gaming group sees that Joe and Bill have this cool high quality pdf and ask for copies, is this legal or immoral? Does it change if it is a small group or a large gaming club?

At what point up to uploading the file on to a file sharing service and sharing the link with a pirate community, which is obviously illegal and immoral in most places is the line in the sand for breaking the law and or being a bad person?

Imagine Bill and Joe live in USA? Now imagine they live in your country? An eastern block country with no real concern for intellectual property laws?

I personally have no problem with any of it up till the digital distribution online. You make a mix tape for your girl (god I am old) or load an mp3 player with songs you ripped from your CD collection, got no problem with that either I don't see a difference. I don't know the laws exactly but much like speeding or goofy laws about not carrying wire cutters in your back pocket I don't care up till the point someone gets a ticket.

 

[Morrus]

Joe and Bill are neighbors, they both play D&D together on Saturday nights.
Both Joe and Bill each own a copy of the Player's Handbook for 5th edition.
Joe purchases a second copy takes it apart and feeds it through a high quality scanner, he spends the time making an ocr pdf of the book. Has Joe done something illegal or immoral at this point?

We can't answer that. It depends on your jurisdiction. As mentioned previously, format-shifting laws vary from place to place.

At what point up to uploading the file on to a file sharing service and sharing the link with a pirate community, which is obviously illegal and immoral in most places is the line in the sand for breaking the law and or being a bad person?

Distribution is a different law to format-shifting. You can format shift for personal use in some places (not all places); there are very few places where you can distribute it legally.

Imagine Bill and Joe live in USA? Now imagine they live in your country? An eastern block country with no real concern for intellectual property laws?

Yes, there are places in the world where getting away with stuff is easy. There are places where you can get awya with some pretty terrible stuff. That's not really the discussion at hand, though.