D&D 5E Hit Point Recovery Too Generous

[The Crimson Binome]

These just require a bit more glad-handing. 7 days on Divine Intervention = 7 long rests = 7 weeks IMC. NBD. A spell might occasionally get rounded up or down in duration to last until EONLR or EONSR depending. A few more DM judgement calls than it was in 4e, but not a horrible amount (especially because 5e doesn't sweat the microbalance, so it's fine if a particular spell is a little more powerful or weaker than it otherwise would be). I try to divine the intent of the mechanic, if possible, and reflect that intent at a new pacing level.

Where it gets complicated is with something like an up-ranked Hunter's Mark, which is supposed to last up to 8 hours... but only as long as you maintain concentration. I'm not buying that anyone is going to maintain concentration on a spell for a week, through sleep and everything.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Where it gets complicated is with something like an up-ranked Hunter's Mark, which is supposed to last up to 8 hours... but only as long as you maintain concentration. I'm not buying that anyone is going to maintain concentration on a spell for a week, through sleep and everything.

I'd parse that like this -
"Up to 1 hour" there = "until after your next short rest." (1-2 encounters or 1 day)
"Up to 8 hours" there = "until after 2 short rests." (3-4 encounters or 2 days)
"Up to 24 hours" there = "until after your next long rest." (5-6+ encounters or 3 days)

Keeping it going "through sleep" just means that a night's sleep isn't quite the same as the "unconscious" status -- unconsciousness is the insensate numbness of deep, intractable sleep, and no one is going to get that on the frontier, far from home, with a belly full of hard tack and the wolves howling in the distance. You rest - enough to recover a bit - but it's a light, fitful sleep, never really deep and comfortable when you're out of civilization. (This also helps make waking up and being ready in the event of an ambush more plausible)

If you want to concentrate on a spell over night, feel free. Maybe concentrating on Hunter's Mark means you dream about your quarry, imagine their face when you deliver the killing blow, think about where they might have gone, rehearse their fate in your head at night. And if something drops you unconscious, you can still lose the spell - that's the deep black numbness of oblivion, not the light, active concern of a sleep out in the hinterlands.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Any long durations or re-charges not stated in terms of long or short rests would also have to be adjusted, of course. An n/day item becomes an 'n' uses, recharges after long rest item. A 24 hr duration becomes double the minimum time between long rests - or just, until the end of your next long rest. 8hrs corresponds to how long a long rest takes to complete. Etc...

A more flexible alternative is the one 13A uses: short ('quick') rests are automatic after each encounter, and long rests ('full heal up') after each 4th encounter. 5e is tuned to more like short rest every other encounter and long rest after 6 or 8, but it wouldn't be hard to come up with something that works.

Likewise, making durations similarly flexible - all encounter long, until the start (or end) of the next encounter, until the next short rest, until the start (or end) of the next long rest - would also make sense.

 

[SirAntoine]

No, they aren't. That's kind of the point. The value of healing is relative to the rate at which you are going to take damage, which is dependent on the rate of encounters. So long as *all* the ways you can regain hit points are scaled to the same time increments, their relative value remains the same.

That is one effect that happens, and I hear you that it works.

Challenge ratings try to balance monsters with characters by their experience level. Assumptions are made about the total power of characters of a given level. It's arbitrary because the characters will actually vary, but the designers were at least able to read about the monsters and characters in the book to make their estimates.

With resting rules, where assumptions are made about how many encounters there will be, and how many opportunities for rest there will be, the designers have no similar way to read about them. Where are they getting their numbers? I think from feedback and surveys of how people play, which at best can speak for a good number of people. It's arbitrary, though, and it will actually vary more.

5-8 Encounters per day or interval between long rests is simply a meta-game construct. The particular adventure and setting will dictate that, not to mention the DM who has some say in the matter also. If the DM wants there to be a random number each day, I hope he will not be subject to comments he is doing it wrong.

 

[SirAntoine]

It is definitely an option that some groups might try.

There are some people who are very empassioned about it. The average new group might also do it.

It's usually been done by those who make modifications.

 

[Celtavian]

This is going off on a tangent, but I also feel like it's too hard to die in 5E. Today I was in 7 player party in an Adventurer's League game, HOTDQ. We were in a fight with a Black Dragon. Since I've been playing the adventure I haven't read it, so I don't know its age or size or stats, but I think a group of 5th level characters should not be able to kill any but the youngest, smallest of dragons. Not only did we kill it, but there were no deaths. A lot of characters got knocked out - after taking ridiculous damage. 50, 60, 70 points from an acid bath? No problem, I'm a mighty 5th level warlock with 36 hp. I don't like dying and I don't like killing characters, but there should at least be enough of a fear of death to...I don't know, sounds like my problem. I came up with dragons being something that only a high level character would consider tackling - I guess I need to re-calibrate the way I gauge things in 5E.

So that's my tangential rant. Thanks for listening

First, seven player party is way too big. The dragon should be more afraid of you than you are of it. Monster Manual clearly states monsters are designed to challenge a four person party. If you're at seven, you are way too powerful for a single dragon. If you have magic items and are using feats, even more in favor of defeating it fairly easy.

Too hard to die? We've had more death in this edition of D&D than we've seen in a many years of 3E.

Might be a difference in encounter design. A single adult dragon isn't much of a challenge to our party. A group of young dragons was quite painful. It's super easy to kill someone at zero hit points. I died a couple of weeks ago. Dragon dropped me to zero, took two extra claw hits, I was dead. One hit after you're at zero by a melee character within five feet is an automatic two death failures due to being a crit. One additional hit, you're dead. We've had this happen a few times against Legendary Creatures.

Not too hard to die. You go to zero, two more hits and you probably dead.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, FATE 'complications' (is it complications or consequences? ) are one of the more intriguing ways of modeling cinematic injury/jeopardy that I've seen in an RPG, and I'd love to hear more detail from someone who has a better grasp of and more experience with them.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this [MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION]. Let me take a stab at it.

I'll start by discussing only physical damage. To avoid talking about the full mechanics of FATE, let's assume for the moment that all the dice have been rolled, and it has been determined that the character is going to take some damage - usually called points or "shifts" of stress.

1) Stress Boxes
In FATE games, a character has some number of "stress boxes", usually between 3 and 5. The fist stress box is worth one. The second is worth two. The third box is worth three, and so on. When a character is taking damage, the player can check off a box, just one, to absorb the damage. If he's taking only one point, he can check off the first box. Is she's taking two points, she has to check off the second box. If you are taking damage, and the box you want to check off is filled, you must roll up the stress track. If you already took two points from an earlier attack, so your second box is checked, you must check the third box, even though it could hold more, you check off the whole box. Tough luck, that.

If you are in a situation where the damage you take must roll off the top of your stress track, you are "Taken Out" of the fight. You can no longer act, and your opponent gets to narrate what happened to you - maybe you are dead, maybe you are unconscious, or what have you. The rules suggest that PC death is often a pretty boring result that leaves players feeling bad, and suggest the GM save it for really dramatic moments, but it isn't off the table here.

Checked stress boxes do not impose any penalties on the character. Stress boxes clear *quickly*. After the conflict, if you get a minute to breathe, *all* your stress boxes clear. They are just stress, not wounds.

2) Consequences
Now, in addition to checking off boxes, a player may choose to take consequences to absorb stress. Exactly how many consequences you can take can vary (some games have bennies that allow you to take more consequences, some variants have different consequence structures). But, a typical structure is that a character can take one Mild, one Moderate, and one Severe consequence.

A Mild Consequence will absorb two stress. A Moderate consequence will absorb four stress. A Severe consequence will absorb six stress.
While a player can check off only a single stress box from a given hit, he may take multiple consequences in addition to that stress box. So, if you take a really massive hit, you can soak it up with a stress box and multiple consequences.

Consequences also carry some penalty for the character. They are "Aspects" that can be used by opponents to get a bonus on die rolls against the character. The opponent who caused the character to take the Consequence gets one use for free. Later uses will cost a Fate point.

Consequences also don't go away as quickly. In order to clear a Consequence, a character must first complete some action relevant to fixing the problem. If, for example, they have the consequence, "Sprained ankle", they should get some first aid. The action to clear the Consequence must be taken in some period of relative calm, not in the middle of a fight. After succeeding at that action, they must also wait some time. How long depends on the level of the Consequence. For a Mild consequence they must wait through a scene before the Consequence clears. For a Moderate Consequence takes an entire session to clear - if you took the clearing action in the middle of this session, the thing will clear in the middle of the next session. A Severe Consequence takes an entire scenario (an adventure, basically) to clear up. So long as the consequence is there, opponents can tag it and use it against you.

Some FATE games also have a stress track for Mental and/or Social stress - this puts these things on the same mechanical basis as physical combat. But you still only get the one set of Consequences.

FATE also adds the idea that, rather than get Taken Out, a character can choose to Concede. You can, at any time, interrupt any action before the roll for it is made to Concede. You get a Fate Point for doing so, and you get to control the manner you get taken out (with a bit of agreement from the GM). So, if you Concede, you can stipulate that you are out of the fight, but *not* dead or completely at your opponent's mercy.

 

[scruffygrognard]

Here's a short and sweet houserule that I may use in my game to add a little granularity to wounds: Wound Levels

It doesn't address all of the issues tied to long rests restoring all lost hit points but allows for lingering wounds. It also makes magical healing a valued asset.

 

[Umbran]

So, having given the FATE version of things, one can imagine a D&D-ized version of those Consequences.

One simple, off the cuff idea for an application might be: instead of taking some number of hit points of damage, the player can choose to take a Wound. The Wound is in some way more difficult to heal than normal hit points, and has some mechanical impact while it exists. Maybe it requires something equivalent to a Regenerate spell to clear.

Useful near the end of a big fight, and the character is running low on hit points, he can stay standing if he so chooses.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

One simple, off the cuff idea for an application might be: instead of taking some number of hit points of damage, the player can choose to take a Wound. The Wound is in some way more difficult to heal than normal hit points, and has some mechanical impact while it exists. Maybe it requires something equivalent to a Regenerate spell to clear.

As long as the player is the one making the decision, about whether or not his/her character becomes wounded, then that's not a D&D-ized version of anything.

A principle aspect of D&D is that players state their intended actions, and the DM determines the results of those actions. It is beyond the role of the player to ever determine whether a hit received manifests as HP loss or some long-lasting wound.