D&D 5E Convince me to keep reading Princes of the Apocalypse (*significant* spoilers. Also my players keep out)

[FormerlyHemlock]

because it assumes NPCs = PCs

LOL. Ah yes, one of the great unsolved mysteries of computer science. Does P(C) = NP(C) or not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem

There are important implications for cryptography if so--depending on the size of the P polynomial of course.

Anyway, DMG page 282 says "You can build an NPC as you would a player character, as discussed in the Player's Handbook," so at least we know that PC is a subset of NPC (PC ⊆ NPC).

 

[Nebulous]

I haven't picked up PotA because a) I generally don't buy adventure paths, and b) I haven't heard anything particularly notable about this one. However.

"Get someone else" has been a constant critique of FR since the beginning. As a DM, it's just something you have to deal with. At a lower level of "help", it's worth noting that since The North is primarily city-states, they have a pretty limited area of concern and influence. Standing armies are fabulously expensive to maintain for countries, let alone cities, and it's likely that their remit doesn't extend more than 5-10 miles past the city walls. Ivan Lackland didn't sign up for the City Guard to go tramping through the forest for a week, after all. He signed up to guard the city. A much more likely response from middle-management is to wait until the problem is a lot bigger, and a lot closer, and then wake up Khelben or work out an alliance to deal with it. Until that happens, the PCs can just turn themselves around and take care of things themselves.

The only real problem with the Forgotten Realms is "assuming" that there are always 17th level characters waiting in the wings to take care of world-devastating events that erupt. Which they do. ALL the time. But it's just a game, and the setting for Princes is sufficiently low level at the start that a week journey at least is needed to get to a big city. And most easily, just don't let your Kelben's and Elminsters and whoever poke around. In LMoP, my PCs reached 5th level in a week of gametime. At that rate, they'll be 20th in a month or so, given fight after fight after fight in whatever dungeon or temple or haunted mansion. There's no real logic to it. It's a game. Bend the rules. Make it your own. You're the storyteller.

 

[Nellisir]

There are important implications for cryptography if so--depending on the size of the P polynomial of course.

I'm pretty sure the Eric's Grandmother clause in EN World prevents me from revealing the size of the P polynomial.

Anyway, DMG page 282 says "You can build an NPC as you would a player character, as discussed in the Player's Handbook," .

You can, but must you? Obviously, I don't think it's a requirement. You COULD...or you could require NPCs to use a slower xp chart. Or no XP chart. Or just give them abilities to suit your taste, like every other monster in the MM.

This is one of the fundamental divides in RPG philosophy - are the PCs exceptional, or not?

As I said, a matter of campaign style.

 

[Nellisir]

The only real problem with the Forgotten Realms is "assuming" that there are always 17th level characters waiting in the wings to take care of world-devastating events that erupt. Which they do. ALL the time. But it's just a game, and the setting for Princes is sufficiently low level at the start that a week journey at least is needed to get to a big city. And most easily, just don't let your Kelben's and Elminsters and whoever poke around. In LMoP, my PCs reached 5th level in a week of gametime. At that rate, they'll be 20th in a month or so, given fight after fight after fight in whatever dungeon or temple or haunted mansion. There's no real logic to it. It's a game. Bend the rules. Make it your own. You're the storyteller.

I don't DM in the FR, but yeah. I don't even see it as bending the rules. It's your game. If you want to say Khelben and Elminster have gone to Mars on a two-month bender, that's A-OK by me.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You can, but must you?

If that question is addressed to me--I already answered it, but you snipped it out.

 

[transtemporal]

The second point is a simmilar convention. Heroes never call for help. The Arrow never calls the Flash when he needs to get out if the city fast, and Captain America doesn't put in a call to Iron Man or Thor. Running to the city for help just isn't something heroes do.

*cough*braveandtheboldjusticeleagueavengers*cough*

Hell, even Batman the ultimate loner sometimes calls on Nightwing, Oracle, Robin to help out. And who's that other guy? Oh yeah, Superman.

 

[Jester David]

*cough*braveandtheboldjusticeleagueavengers*cough*

Hell, even Batman the ultimate loner sometimes calls on Nightwing, Oracle, Robin to help out. And who's that other guy? Oh yeah, Superman.

But in their individual books, they never call for help. They only really call for help when in a team book for cases that conveniently involve others. No matter how much trouble Batman is having with the Joker, he never puts in a quick call to Flash or Superman.
(But mostly this comes from reviews of Winter Soldier when people wondered why Cap didn't call Tony for tech help.

 

[Staffan]

But in their individual books, they never call for help. They only really call for help when in a team book for cases that conveniently involve others. No matter how much trouble Batman is having with the Joker, he never puts in a quick call to Flash or Superman.
(But mostly this comes from reviews of Winter Soldier when people wondered why Cap didn't call Tony for tech help.

Hmm. In Marvel comics, I often see a lot of interaction between different supers - but generally it's a matter of calling on someone's expertise rather than their ability to smash face. For example, let's say Spider-Man runs into some shape-shifting aliens. He then calls up Reed Richards, who goes "Oh, those are skrulls, blah blah blah. But we're headed out to the Microverse, so good luck with those."

Similarly, I think it's OK if PCs seek out NPCs to ask their advice, and possibly for stationary spellcasting or other problem solving ("Hey, could you cast Greater Restoration on our friend Grog here, he had an unfortunate encounter with an Intellect Devourer?"). But the NPCs have their own stuff to deal with, so if you come to Khelben Blackstaff talking about elemental cultists he'd be more likely to go "Oh, that sounds interesting. You should look into that. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a city to run, a couple of spy organizations to manage, a bunch of magical research to do, and some Zhentarim to kill. I'm swamped."

 

[Nellisir]

If that question is addressed to me--I already answered it, but you snipped it out.

What, the bit that PC is a subset of NPC? Can you expand on it then?

Edit: Nevermind, I think I get what you were saying. And no, it was more of a rhetorical question.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Amongst the craziness in Faerun: Khelben Blackstaff is now deceased. New mages have taken the title "Blackstaff", to somewhat lesser effectiveness.