D&D 5E Question about moving and attacking

[Shiroiken]

So, if I cast Fireball, do you get advantage on your save? (there's no roll for me to get disadvantage on)

Nope, unless you also use the alternate rule of players roll everything. It's one of the many quirks that show up, just like playing a Drow caster who uses no attack roll spells to avoid the light sensitivity penalty.

In reality, this rule affects mobs far more than PCs (I've never seen anyone need that extra 5' for a spell, but it could happen). Otherwise, you have the situation of goblins/kobolds/orcs/whatever holding the group to a chokepoint, then allowing every single one of them to attack the front line.

 

[CapnZapp]

You can enter an allies space and take an action; you just can't end your turn there. I use the Squeezing rules to adjudicate this, however, to keep it from being too strong.

You did not state you additionally use a variant rule where this actually makes a difference.

 

[Shiroiken]

You did not state you additionally use a variant rule where this actually makes a difference.

Uh... I don't exactly follow you.

You are able to move into an allies space during a turn, but you can't end your turn there (per the rules). I ALSO use the Squeezing rules for this case, to keep mobs from being too strong. If your Action taken in the Squeezed space doesn't require you to make an Attack roll, then the only punishment is the loss of movement, and Disadvantage to any potential Dex Saves (very unlikely) and granting Advantage on any AOO.

There are many ways for a caster to avoid a penalty to attack by using a Save Spell (including Frightened, Poisoned, Prone, and Restrained, just to name the conditions). If you have a problem with this, you should use the variant rule where Players roll everything, but I don't.

 

[El Mahdi]

Never mind. Confused this thread with the Running Away thread.

 

[Sunseeker]

Does that sound about right? Maybe our rules guys @shidaku and @Paraxis could weigh in...

The variant use of the rule is certainly making things more confusing.

The intention of squeezing is to be able to enter and exit a fixed space, such as a narrow crevasse or to slip through some otherwise unmoving area. The problem with applying this rule to foes (and friends) is that each controls the ENTIRE SPACE, they don't occupy it, they control it. This means that Bob the Fighter is not frozen like a wax statue during your turn, but he his dodging and weaving and moving around that 5 ft area the whole time. Attempting to squeeze is of course, possible there is open space, however the open space is fluid, and as such as you must navigate fluid space (And we all remember Species 8472 lives in Fluidic Space so that's bad enough!) with moving obstacles. Obviously the squeezing rule can be applied here, but I'd be more favorable towards an acrobatics check.

The reason no check is required for friendly spaces is that Bob the Fighter is keeping an eye out on everyone around him, you included, so when you enter his space he attempts to dance around you while you quickly move through it.

Now, what has been consistent in all of this is movement whether you are attempting to squeeze or running straight through, you are still moving. The key words fall into "breaking up your move" when you attack you are explicitly ENDING your movement in order to do something else (attack).

Now certainly if you are allowing a person to make some sort of check to occupy another's space, that's certainly an option, it's not by the RAW but it's an option. By the RAW, since you cannot squeeze through another's space and you cannot end your movement in another's space, you cannot STOP moving in their space to attack.

If you want to end your movement in the space of another, by RAW, you're going to have to potentially use a spell or play a halfling. Or of course, come up with a variant rule that allows your to do so.

Personally, a feat like say "Back to Back Fighting" that would allow two players with the feat to occupy the same square while fighting, would be hella cool.

 

[Coredump]

Move 10'
attack
move 20'

In the above, there is not a 30' move, there are two moves. A 10' move, and a 15' move. (This is stated on p.190 Breaking up Your Move)

The rules say you may not "end your move" in another creatures space (p.191). It does *not* say "end your turn".... but your move.

So you may not end the 10' move nor the 20' move in the space of another creature.

 

[Shiroiken]

Move 10'
attack
move 20'

In the above, there is not a 30' move, there are two moves. A 10' move, and a 15' move. (This is stated on p.190 Breaking up Your Move)

The rules say you may not "end your move" in another creatures space (p.191). It does *not* say "end your turn".... but your move.

So you may not end the 10' move nor the 20' move in the space of another creature.

Huh. I missed that part. I must have interpreted "end you Move" as your Move for the whole turn. Oh well

 

[Thyrwyn]

Huh. I missed that part. I must have interpreted "end you Move" as your Move for the whole turn. Oh well

To be fair, it has been read both ways (the Section is called "Breaking up your Move" - move is singular); this also affects how you (potentially) rule on Evasive Footwork - which works until you stop moving.

My take is this - if you were allowed to act while sharing a space, the rules would need to account for times when you were unable to leave that shared space. They do not.

 

[Hriston]

Move 10'
attack
move 20'

In the above, there is not a 30' move, there are two moves. A 10' move, and a 15' move. (This is stated on p.190 Breaking up Your Move)

The rules say you may not "end your move" in another creatures space (p.191). It does *not* say "end your turn".... but your move.

So you may not end the 10' move nor the 20' move in the space of another creature.

I disagree. You can't have more than one "move" per turn. You can only break your one move up into smaller portions of a move, punctuated by actions.

On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action... The “Movement and Position” section later in this chapter gives the rules for your move... You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action. For example, if you have a speed of 30 feet, you can move 10 feet, take your action, and then move 20 feet... Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.

There is nothing in the rules that says you can't take those actions from the space inhabited by another character once you have moved into it, only that you can't enter that space if you don't have enough speed left to leave it afterwards.

 

[CapnZapp]

I disagree. You can't have more than one "move" per turn. You can only break your one move up into smaller portions of a move, punctuated by actions.



There is nothing in the rules that says you can't take those actions from the space inhabited by another character once you have moved into it, only that you can't enter that space if you don't have enough speed left to leave it afterwards.

That is not what is said. That is an implication you made. As such, it makes for a decent house rule.