D&D 5E Is "Mystic" a bad class name?

[Lalato]

I think Mystic works just fine. I'm looking forward to how it develops with sub-classes and whatnot.

 

[Jester David]

When 3e came about, the sorcerer class was introduced. Dragonlance already had a sorcerer in the form of a Fifth Age role. Sovereign Press, who held the Dragonlance license, tried to create an alternate class to fit the DL sorcerer more, but WotC mandated that the DL sorcerer be the 3e sorcerer. Eventually, the Academy Sorcerer prestige class was created to give a bit of the Fifth Age sorcerer flavor back.

If history repeated itself, the psionic mystic would not be the best fit. In some areas, it would be fine. But the connection to the Far Realm really would not fit the Dragonlance flavor. Of course, the class could be re-skinned. Still, it would be missing things like healing (a HUGE staple of the mystic) and the sphere of Animism (which translates best to the Nature domain).

For anyone interested, I did a 5e conversion of the mystic, inspired by the favored soul.

Mystic Sorcerer (Sorcerous Origin: Mysticism)

Well, what's more important: keeping the flavour of the class in line with SAGA or keeping the name?

After all, do people in-world really differentiate themselves as "wizard" or "sorcerer" and the like? It's not like Tanis identified himself as a fighter while Riverwind has a badge saying "ranger". Heck, back when the books were written, Wizards of High Sorcerery belonged to the "magic user" class.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Well, what's more important: keeping the flavour of the class in line with SAGA or keeping the name?

What would be optimal would be if they could meet in the middle. What I fear is the situation where a fan of the psionic mystic comes to Dragonlance and finds that DL's version of the mystic is a totally different beast. So if the 5e psion lands up being called the mystic, it would be nice if some of that DL flavor got integrated somehow. Maybe we replace the Far Realm with Chaos. Maybe the power of the mind becomes the power of the heart. What would be nice would be to see some DL-specific option that would accommodate for the DL mystic. Not holding my breath though.

After all, do people in-world really differentiate themselves as "wizard" or "sorcerer" and the like? It's not like Tanis identified himself as a fighter while Riverwind has a badge saying "ranger". Heck, back when the books were written, Wizards of High Sorcerery belonged to the "magic user" class.

In some cases, the people do. For example, a cleric has a medallion of faith. Everyone knows that they are clerics. Wizards in Dragonlance wear the robes of their respective order.

 

[Jester David]

What I fear is the situation where a fan of the psionic mystic comes to Dragonlance and finds that DL's version of the mystic is a totally different beast.

How likely is that to happen?
If you're playing in a Dragonlance game it is almost certainly being run by an old school Dragonlance fan from back in the day, who can help differentiate the flavour. Even then, there are no psionics in Dragonlance so the mystic class wouldn't be an option.

So if the 5e psion lands up being called the mystic, it would be nice if some of that DL flavor got integrated somehow. Maybe we replace the Far Realm with Chaos. Maybe the power of the mind becomes the power of the heart. What would be nice would be to see some DL-specific option that would accommodate for the DL mystic. Not holding my breath though.

I doubt the fans of every other world would be happy getting Dragonlance flavour all over their class. "Chaos" means nothing in Eberron.
Every campaign setting should make the classes their own, reflavouring as needed.

WotC cannot and should not have to mark certain names as "off limits" just because they were used as specialty classes in campaign settings.

In some cases, the people do. For example, a cleric has a medallion of faith. Everyone knows that they are clerics. Wizards in Dragonlance wear the robes of their respective order.

They know them as a black-robed Wizard of High Sorcerery, not a 5th level Lawful Evil Necromancer wizard. They know them as a priest of Paladine, not a level 3 light domain cleric.
There wasn't a meeting where everyone said "okay, we used to call them magic users and then sorcerers, now we're going to call them wizards."

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think re-cycling an existing name from a prior ed, like Psion or Psionicist fist 5e's general presentation (emphasizing classic feel).

Or, just dropping "Mystic." "Awakened" wouldn't be that bad, and would fit the idea as presented.

And, thave been a number of other psionic classes, like the Ardent, that could be sub-class of the Psion(icist)/AM/whatever or sub-classes of existing classes. A Psychic Warrior (or Battlemind) could be a Fighter archetype, for instance, cribbing off psionics the same way the EK does arcane magic, for instance.

 

[Elderbrain]

I would have simply called the class the Psychic. It makes what the class does clear without sounding too sci-fi like the Psionicist or (ugh!) the Psion. "Mystic" sounds like some kind of magic-user, at least to me. However, I'll live with it if they make it a really good class, and it's better than "Psion"...

 

[aramis erak]

And, in 1E, elves couldn't have psionics, IIRC.

I believe the transition from 1E "brain powered" to 5E "Far Realms" was, essentially:
Mind Flayers eat brains, so they're psionic.
We added categories to every monster, so Mind Flayers are aberrations.
Aberrations have little in common besides being weird, let's give them a common origin in the Far Realms.
Hmm.... lots of psionic creatures are psionic, so psionics must come from the Far Realms.

Of course, that completely ignores the fact that many (most?) demons and devils also had psionics. It used to be a way to make off-beat, but powerful thing more off-beat and powerful.

Original Edition restricted Psionics to humans & monsters alone, and punished characters by loss of other abilities.
Fighter: -1 Str per 4 devotions, -1 henchman per devotion
Thief: -1 Dex & -1 Str per 4 devotions, -1 henchman per devotion
MU: -1 spell level for 1 devotion, -3 for two, -6 for 3, -10 for 4, -15 for 5, etc.
Cleric: -1 level for turning per devotion, plus loss of spell levels.
Druid: cannot be psionic.
Monk: cannot be psionic.
Elf/dwarf/halfling: PC's cannot be psionic.

 

[Dragonhelm]

How likely is that to happen?
If you're playing in a Dragonlance game it is almost certainly being run by an old school Dragonlance fan from back in the day, who can help differentiate the flavour.

A Dragonlance might be run by an old schooler, but not necessarily. There is a portion of the fan base who continue with the 3.5 materials in Pathfinder. Likewise, a number of us also play Dragonlance using 5e.

Even then, there are no psionics in Dragonlance so the mystic class wouldn't be an option.

Back in 1e/2e, this was the case. Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Productions took the stance that they wouldn't address the issue one way or the other and leave it up to players (per Jamie Chambers).

That being said, several of the Spheres of Mysticism in the Age of Mortals could be associated with psionics. Channeling is all about boosting physical prowess, Meditation boosts mental prowess, Mentalism is telepathy, and Sensitivity maps out fairly close with Clairsentience. Technically, Mysticism is divine, but it doesn't have to be.

I doubt the fans of every other world would be happy getting Dragonlance flavour all over their class. "Chaos" means nothing in Eberron.
Every campaign setting should make the classes their own, reflavouring as needed.

I think I misspoke. Didn't get much sleep last night.

So what I'm trying (poorly - lol) to say is that the 5e mystic can include all the references to the Far Realm, etc. Then Dragonlance fans can take the mystic and make it more Krynnish in nature. So kind of like how a wizard is mostly the same in all worlds, but in Dark Sun, they have to deal with preserving and defiling.

Hope that makes sense.

WotC cannot and should not have to mark certain names as "off limits" just because they were used as specialty classes in campaign settings.

Right, and even Dragonlance cannot claim exclusivity on the mystic. It's a generic name, and it was used first to describe the basic D&D monk.


I think I want to re-read the psionics document and see if the 5e mystic can be re-skinned to fit Dragonlance. That might be an interesting challenge.

 

[Jester David]

A Dragonlance might be run by an old schooler, but not necessarily. There is a portion of the fan base who continue with the 3.5 materials in Pathfinder. Likewise, a number of us also play Dragonlance using 5e.

I was one of them, having run the 3e updates of Chronicles in Pathfinder.
But at this point, the 3e books are nearing old school, with the newest being almost a decade out of print, and the novel line similarly having ended.
If you're playing in Dragonlance your DM is very likely not a rookie and knows what they're doing.

So what I'm trying (poorly - lol) to say is that the 5e mystic can include all the references to the Far Realm, etc. Then Dragonlance fans can take the mystic and make it more Krynnish in nature. So kind of like how a wizard is mostly the same in all worlds, but in Dark Sun, they have to deal with preserving and defiling.

Hope that makes sense.

I agree with that. I'm hoping they keep the flavour but don't try to force it into other worlds and instead have a sidebar showing how psionics works in other worlds with unrelated backstories.

 

[Hussar]

Here is the definition of ‘psionics’ in D&D 1e. It comes from the original Players Handbook, in the Psionics section.

"
Psionics are various powers derived from the brain. They enable characters to perform in ways which resemble magical abilities.

"

The origin of psionics is the ‘brain’. Psionics is entirely naturalistic. Humans can do it by being human.

Of course, a human can use natural psionic abilities to telepathically contact the mind of an other being, even if that mind is in some other plane of existence. Ultimately the consciousness of a human transcends space-time.

The person oneself is the source, origin, and cause of these magic-like effects.

It wasn't a case of simply contacting the mind of another being. Whenever you used a discipline, there was a fair chance of a demon or devil popping out and trying to eat you and drag you back to Hell. Sounds pretty Lovecraftian to me. Use these forbidden powers and things from beyond are going to eat you. Stare into the abyss and all that.

Note, that they do mention in the 1e PHB that dwarves and halflings can be psionic too. It's not solely a human thing.

But considering that that one sentence, "Psionics are various powers derived from the brain" is the sum total of flavour given, I'm thinking that it's not a huge deal to ignore it.