This is true, but unnecessary.
D&D 5E Spell Preparation: Leaving Slots Open
- Thread starter Celtavian
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This is true, but unnecessary.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
Semi off-topic:
Does anyone remember the "reserve feats" that were introduced in Complete Mage and (I think) Complete Adventurer?
They worked something to the effect of "if you have [x] type of spell prepared, you can do [y] as a spell-like ability" or the like.
With all the talk of shifting spell lists, I wonder if we'll see a return of those or something like them? They would give one incentive NOT to change their lists on the fly...
Does anyone remember the "reserve feats" that were introduced in Complete Mage and (I think) Complete Adventurer?
They worked something to the effect of "if you have [x] type of spell prepared, you can do [y] as a spell-like ability" or the like.
With all the talk of shifting spell lists, I wonder if we'll see a return of those or something like them? They would give one incentive NOT to change their lists on the fly...
jodyjohnson
Adventurer
In a recent game the DM asked what my caster did when he woke up.
He got up, relieved himself, got dressed, prepared and ate breakfast, and then started to prepare his spells. But it didn't work because apparently I needed to prepare spells immediately after completing a long rest.
He got up, relieved himself, got dressed, prepared and ate breakfast, and then started to prepare his spells. But it didn't work because apparently I needed to prepare spells immediately after completing a long rest.
CapnZapp
Legend
Tell your DM he's wrong.
Mercule
Adventurer
This is pretty much what I meant by "acknowledge it's a house rule". I think the more restrictive ruling will be most folks' default interpretation. Whether or not you consider it a house rule or not isn't really an issue, for me, just that you should have appropriate expectations when dealing with others.
occam
Hero
That wasn't the nature of the point under discussion, but you're right about this, I was being liberal in my reading of the RAW. Interpreted strictly, you can only change your spell list just as you finish a long rest. As you said, I would house rule that as something like "once between long rests".
I would argue that getting dressed and having breakfast is part of the long rest. "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours."
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Everyone keeps focusing on the word "when" in the sentence, "You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest."
I think that's the wrong part to focus on to answer this question. The part to focus on is, "you can change your list of prepared spells."
What happens if you do not change them? They remain the same ones you previously prepared. A long rest doesn't un-prepare them. Sleeping doesn't un-prepare them. Having cast spells using all your spell slots the previous day doesn't un-prepare them. Spells remain prepared, until you change them to other spells. So...
If you don't prepare something new, you by-default still have what you prepared the last time you did preparation. You never have something simply "open". Once you've ever prepared a spell, it remains prepared until you change it to something else. So there is never an "left one unprepared" scenario.
The real question here is, "can you change what you have prepared, more than once per day, provided you're not changing a spell that had been previously changed that day"?
And I think the answer is, "you can only change what you have prepared once per day - whatever you don't change, remains fixed as whatever you prepared it as the previous day".
If it didn't work that way, you'd have the opportunity to double-up on prepared spells. Here's how that would work - if you prepared it yesterday, it's still prepared the next day until you change it. If you could then change one of them and save the others for changing later, then you still have all those spells prepared that you prepped the day before, AND you have the opportunity to change them later.
I don't think the intent is to allow spellcasters to, in essence, select from double the number of prepared spells each day. I think the intent is to permit one list of prepared spells per day. And as there is no functional difference between "preparing spell X", and "leaving spell X still prepared from yesterday", I think as soon as you change any spells for the day, you fix all your spells for the day. If you don't change them all, then the ones you don't change remain whatever they were the day before, fixed as part of your new prepared spells for the day.
Now that still leaves some double preparation issue. You can simply carry over all your spells from the prior day, which for this example let's assume were mainly combat-oriented. And then after the day of combat is done, you can now change your spells for the day (which you get to do one time after a long rest) to non-combat spells like healing or identify or alarm or other utility spells. But if you do that, you're still stuck with that new list of non-combat spells until you change them again after a long rest.
To address that issue, I think it would be reasonable to interpret the rule as, "once you've cast a spell for the day after a long rest, that fixes your prepared spells list for the day". In other words, once you cast a spell from that list, you've officially changed your spell list for the day, even if the change was to an identical list of spells as the prior day.
I think that's the wrong part to focus on to answer this question. The part to focus on is, "you can change your list of prepared spells."
What happens if you do not change them? They remain the same ones you previously prepared. A long rest doesn't un-prepare them. Sleeping doesn't un-prepare them. Having cast spells using all your spell slots the previous day doesn't un-prepare them. Spells remain prepared, until you change them to other spells. So...
If you don't prepare something new, you by-default still have what you prepared the last time you did preparation. You never have something simply "open". Once you've ever prepared a spell, it remains prepared until you change it to something else. So there is never an "left one unprepared" scenario.
The real question here is, "can you change what you have prepared, more than once per day, provided you're not changing a spell that had been previously changed that day"?
And I think the answer is, "you can only change what you have prepared once per day - whatever you don't change, remains fixed as whatever you prepared it as the previous day".
If it didn't work that way, you'd have the opportunity to double-up on prepared spells. Here's how that would work - if you prepared it yesterday, it's still prepared the next day until you change it. If you could then change one of them and save the others for changing later, then you still have all those spells prepared that you prepped the day before, AND you have the opportunity to change them later.
I don't think the intent is to allow spellcasters to, in essence, select from double the number of prepared spells each day. I think the intent is to permit one list of prepared spells per day. And as there is no functional difference between "preparing spell X", and "leaving spell X still prepared from yesterday", I think as soon as you change any spells for the day, you fix all your spells for the day. If you don't change them all, then the ones you don't change remain whatever they were the day before, fixed as part of your new prepared spells for the day.
Now that still leaves some double preparation issue. You can simply carry over all your spells from the prior day, which for this example let's assume were mainly combat-oriented. And then after the day of combat is done, you can now change your spells for the day (which you get to do one time after a long rest) to non-combat spells like healing or identify or alarm or other utility spells. But if you do that, you're still stuck with that new list of non-combat spells until you change them again after a long rest.
To address that issue, I think it would be reasonable to interpret the rule as, "once you've cast a spell for the day after a long rest, that fixes your prepared spells list for the day". In other words, once you cast a spell from that list, you've officially changed your spell list for the day, even if the change was to an identical list of spells as the prior day.
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jgsugden
Legend
When the rule was written, WotC was not trying to hide the ball. They attempted to create a clear and simple interpretation that would be easy to administrate. To that end, we should approach interpreting the rule in the same way - go for the simple interpretation that people reach at first blush on reading.
Choose spells at the end of a long rest.
That is pretty much the only way you should expect to see this played out at a sanctioned event. If you have other expectations based upon a theoretical nuanced interpretation of one way to read language that a small percentage of people find open to inventive consideration... I think you'll be disappointed, or people will find you frustrating, at a sanctioned event.
If you want to play it differently at home: have at it. It doesn't break the game, but I'd be shocked if a vast majority didn't read the rule and walk away with the idea that spells are prepared at the end of a long rest, and are not meant to be left open or manipulated at other points (unless explicit mechanics are introduced to allow the change from the standard rules).
Choose spells at the end of a long rest.
That is pretty much the only way you should expect to see this played out at a sanctioned event. If you have other expectations based upon a theoretical nuanced interpretation of one way to read language that a small percentage of people find open to inventive consideration... I think you'll be disappointed, or people will find you frustrating, at a sanctioned event.
If you want to play it differently at home: have at it. It doesn't break the game, but I'd be shocked if a vast majority didn't read the rule and walk away with the idea that spells are prepared at the end of a long rest, and are not meant to be left open or manipulated at other points (unless explicit mechanics are introduced to allow the change from the standard rules).
Actually, I think the more pertinent question vis-a-vis what you quoted me on, is can you "prepare" less than your allowed. If I can prepare 6, can I prepare 5 actual spells and 1 unprepared spell (let's call it the "null" spell).
The discussion of "when" goes to the point that well, I "prepared" my spells today, and if I prepared a "null" spell I can't prepare again until after a long rest.
The part you quoted me is reminding that you could, in this scenario, prepare that "null" spell the next day (after a long rest) - Well technically prepare the entire the list but with that "null" spell filled.
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