D&D 5E The word ‘Race’

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Wait Orcs aren't real? I better make an appointment with a shrink...

 

[pemerton]

There is no indication of any relationship to cannibalism or degeneracy. The description certainly doesn't indicate those qualities.

Other than the taking of captives for food - cannibalism - and the breeding of "unsavoury mongrels" - degeneracy.

The phrase "unsavoury mongrels" could be lifted right out of a pulp story of the HPL/REH kind. From The Call of Cthulhu:

One thing I began to suspect, and which I now fear I know, is that my uncle’s death was far from natural. He fell on a narrow hill street leading up from an ancient waterfront swarming with foreign mongrels, after a careless push from a negro sailor.​

The story also contains multiple references to the "mongrel" cultists in Louisiana.

 

[MG.0]

Other than the taking of captives for food - cannibalism - and the breeding of "unsavoury mongrels" - degeneracy.

Not cannibalism. That would be orcs eating orcs. If a lion eats a human, it is not practicing cannibalism.

The phrase "unsavoury mongrels" could be lifted right out of a pulp story of the HPL/REH kind. From The Call of Cthulhu:

One thing I began to suspect, and which I now fear I know, is that my uncle’s death was far from natural. He fell on a narrow hill street leading up from an ancient waterfront swarming with foreign mongrels, after a careless push from a negro sailor.​

The story also contains multiple references to the "mongrel" cultists in Louisiana.

I'll grant you the word mongrel does appear in Lovecraft's works. However it is a common word for any kind of cross-breed, including dogs. The description explains the existence of orc hybrids like half-orcs, ogrillons, etc. but it is a stretch to say that one word suggests the orc description had Lovecraftian influences, especially as you've pointed out they are quite obviously Tolkien in origin.

Edit: I'd also like to add that degeneracy in Lovecraft's work was specifically intended in the sense of regression from a more advanced state, i.e. decay, which was a big part of Lovecraft's early works that he drew from his primary influence of E.A. Poe. Merely being crude, violent , or primitive would not be an indicator of Lovecraft's influence.

 

[Sunseeker]

I continue to be surprised by the fact that there is even a debate around whether the classic fantasy works that D&D draw on contain racist elements and ideas.

I'll pass over Tolkien for the moment - in my experience contemporary American gamers sometimes seem to have trouble picking up on the cultural and historical allusions in his work.

But the racist elements in the classic pulp of REH and HPL - both of whom D&D draws upon heavily - are hardly subtle. Read The Vale of Lost Women or The Call of Cthulhu. Ideas of biological degeneracy, expressed via very familiar motifs of human history and ethnicity, are ubiquitous in these pulp stories.

Right? And it's not even so much the classic works of fiction that wrote the racism, some did of course as some people are just jerks, but besides that it's a nearly infinite regression. The works D&D draws on drew upon older works, which drew upon subsequently older works and so on and so forth and each step we take backwards takes us to a time of increased ignorance, fear and intolerance.

It's worth noting though that the racism inherent in these paradigms is not always intentional. Certainly some myths about hill-people are meant to be disparaging against them, but in other cases it is simply a lack of interaction with those people that leads to everything we know about them coming from one or two biased sources.

 

[Jester David]

It's not that elves have a +2 to dex. It's more about how your racial modifiers will match up with your racial stereotypes. It gives off a vibe that stereotypes are accurate.

(Weak giants would be kind of interesting. You know because you see a giant you expect big strong and dumb, so you could surprise your players by taking what they expect and delivering something different.)

Fantasy racial stereotypes are not the same as human racial stereotypes, because in this case there can be some facts behind it. Claiming dwarves are tough miners and elves are graceful woodsfolk is as valid as saying a greyhound is fast but lazy, great danes are strong but gentle, or border collies are intelligent. They're all very different breeds that are physically different.
That isn't to say you couldn't have a sickly dwarf any more than a slow greyhound or frail great dane, but the race is going to fall along certain averages, and a sickly dwarf will still be more hardy and less agile than a sickly and clumsy elf.

Plus, stereotypes in this situation are useful. In real life you can judge people as individuals. Because they are. In a fantasy game they're not: they're a creation of the DM and as real as she wants them to be. Stereotypes and assumptions are an easy cultural shorthand so we can all think of dwarves (and other fantasy races) the same, without having to describe them to people from scratch or make all of the imaginary mental constructs into unique snowflakes.
There's a reason the traditional races are classics, while new races tend to be more forgettable. And how even new races tend to have a cultural hook or stereotypes that make them easier to think about. (Dragonborn as honourable, tieflings as drawn to darkness, gnomes as curious, etc). It gives players and DMs a starting point, a baseline for their characters. It's easier to make the dwarf's dwarf - the dwarf that is the embodiment of dwarf culture and values - if you actually know what dwarf values are. Similarly, it's easier to make the outlier if you actually know what "normal" is. The honourless dwarf who drinks tea, uses arcane magic, and has a shaved face is more remarkable if you know that dwarves are typically lawful beer drinkers who eschew magic and are renowned for their beards. Likewise, having assumptions of culture allows the DM to defy expectations, something Dark Sun did very well. Not knowing what to expect from a give race was one of the strengths of that world.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Can someone explain to me how a possible link to a vague concept of racism in a fantasy game will actually engender said racism in real live people? Is there ever a case of someone saying 'well, orcs are bad, and orcs are a race, so other, real world races must also be bad?' I contend there isn't. This is an argument in search of a problem -- there's no actual problem that you're solving, just some 'we think it might, possibly, have an impact if you squint on Tuesdays, walk thrice widdershins, and hum a polka.' It's tripe.

 

[MG.0]

Can someone explain to me how a possible link to a vague concept of racism in a fantasy game will actually engender said racism in real live people?

It doesn't.

It's the exact same argument people used in the 80's to suggest D&D turned people evil and drove them insane. It may sound ridiculous now, but it was a very serious topic back then. I had people go out of their way to insist my mind and soul was in danger as long as I played D&D. No joking.

 

[pemerton]

Can someone explain to me how a possible link to a vague concept of racism in a fantasy game will actually engender said racism in real live people?

Yes. Some people claim that (i) Wagner's dwarves are, at least in part, an anti-Semitic stereotype, and that (ii) this reinforces or provides additional validation of received stereotypes, already prevalent in Central European culture, about Jewish people.

A more contemporary example is the film Avatar. The fact that the blue, forest-dwelling hunter-gatherer people in that movie are fictional doesn't prevent the film reinforcing or validating received stereotypes around "savage" people living in hunter gatherer societies of the sort who were colonised by the British, French and Germans in North America, Africa and Australia.

In the context of D&D, the concern is similar: that the fashion in which the game deals with tropes of biology, culture, history and empire reinforces and validates racialised ways of thinking about these things.

 

[Jester David]

Can someone explain to me how a possible link to a vague concept of racism in a fantasy game will actually engender said racism in real live people? Is there ever a case of someone saying 'well, orcs are bad, and orcs are a race, so other, real world races must also be bad?' I contend there isn't. This is an argument in search of a problem -- there's no actual problem that you're solving, just some 'we think it might, possibly, have an impact if you squint on Tuesdays, walk thrice widdershins, and hum a polka.' It's tripe.

The problem isn't that it will cause racism. People won't suddenly become racist. But it can perpetuate stereotypes that people are trying to remove from the culture. In the same way that not having Black Widow toys won't suddenly cause a generation of boys to become misogynists, but it'd still be nice to have a mixture of gendered characters.
The thing is, by drawing inspiration from racist sources with outdated ideas, and presenting said sources as positive influences, it condones their beliefs.
For example, fantasy and geek culture really idolizes H.P. Lovecraft and presents him as a great and influential literary figure, but ignores the horrible racism in his works and beliefs. It makes it seem like it's okay. Forgivable.
Similarly, certain elements evoke racist imagery. Even if not being racist, it's using the language of racism. Cultural shorthand.

If orcs are presented in a way that emulates stereotypes that used to be applied to real world ethnicity it is hugely problematic. As problematic as making elves analogous culturally with a real world nation. Care should be made to avoid both overt or accidental racism. Because a lot of people still deal with racism in their everyday lives, and really don't need an escapist game bringing them down. They don't need a reminder of the real world ruining their immersion.

That said, I don't mind evil orcs. There's a purpose to that. Monstrous races serve a purpose and if they're just misunderstood or victims of ethnocentric biases it makes the adventurers - the player characters - into the real monsters. That kind of morally grey world where the actions of the players might not be justified shouldn't be the baseline. Orcs need to be mostly irredeemably evil so they can be killed with impunity.
But they also shouldn't be the only dark skinned folk in the world. The world shouldn't be divided into pale skinned good guys and dark villains (with the uber good elves being even paler). There needs to be representation on both sides. And orcs need to be clearly fantastic, and not just collections of old stereotypes, even if this is just accidental.

 

[MG.0]

A more contemporary example is the film Avatar. The fact that the blue, forest-dwelling hunter-gatherer people in that movie are fictional doesn't prevent the film reinforcing or validating received stereotypes around "savage" people living in hunter gatherer societies of the sort who were colonised by the British, French and Germans in North America, Africa and Australia.

BS. If anything, Avatar turns those stereotypes inside out. The "savages" were shown to be anything but. The real savages were shown to be the so called civilised people wrecking their world.

Moreso, you didn't actually address Ovinomancer's question. Namely: How can a vague link to racism in a fantasy game world reinforce those beliefs in real people? It is not sufficient to suggest that some people claim that the origin of some fantasy races are drawn from real-world racism. That is a causal link in the wrong direction, even if you believe it, and also believe said racism is visible in the resulting D&D material.