D&D 5E How many fans want a 5E Warlord?

[Guest 6801328]

A Charisma based warrior class with no spells does not exist.[/B] Therefore, something like the Warlord is necessary.

Is that true for every possible completion of "An (attribute)-based (class) with no (feature) does not exist, therefore something like (it) is needed."

 

[El Mahdi]

Someone want to make this easy for us all and stat out Mr. Springsteen - thanks!

Nah. That would be as useless as statting out Chuck Norris; a futile exploration of infinite potentials.



By the way, when Chuck Norris was asked how many push-ups he could do, his answer was "All of them."

 

[Eric V]

There is no non-magic mental (int, wis, or cha) based character.

Yeah, it's a hole in heroic archetypes: the guy who is not as strong or swift as the warriors in his group but knows how best to deploy them and has great in-the-heat-of-the-moment-tactics. It would be great if there was a mechanically attractive reason to play a smart character (or wise, or charismatic) beyond spells. But then, this is a very magic heavy edition.

 

[Manbearcat]

This makes me wonder if skilled receivers have a "marking" ability, in that they force all the defenders in their area to pay at least some attention to them, leaving other receivers less able to be covered.

XP for using the Lions!!!

Even better that the route example is Megatron! However, Johnson's not the Warlord; Matty is. Stafford is using Johnson to affect the movement of the defense; just like a D&D Warlord.

I wish I could give extra XP!

Now that you mention it, your post and Manbearcat's examples are making me rethink Marking.

I've shied away from using or incorporating the concept, but I might explore it a little now.

Heh, as a Packers fan, I was hoping to give Manbearcat some demerits for his choice.

A Packers fan in Jersey and a Lions fan in Florida? What is this world coming to?!

And yes, the concept of "marking" is every bit as much a "thing" in physical exchanges between multiple participants (team sports, combat) as martial forced movement is (your example is a good one TwoSix). I've said it many times before, but 4e's combat engine is more "immersive" to me (in terms of inhabiting the actual OODA loop of participants in the combat/skirmish etc) then any other combat engine I've ever participated in. Melee control, dynamic mobility, and the reaction economy are the primary reasons for that.

 

[Imaro]

And can't use support is also the difference.

Only the Battlemaster can support his allies...

The EK doesn't have level 9 spells because most of his power is in being a fighter, not a wizard.
The BM doesn't have at-will maneuvers because most of his power is in being a fighter, not a suppor.

Disagree... the only at-wills are cantrips, so unless you are proposing his maneuvers be no more powerful than cantrips at-will is overpowered It has nothing to do with his power being a fighter (what fighter special abilities are at-will?).

He is making you better. You do your normal attack, he gives you a bonus.

No we suddenly have wizards who can knock martial warriors prone, or frighten them with their weapon prowess... it's not making someone better it's granting them new abilities.

The magic initiate feat.
Doesn't make you a wizard.

Where did I say it did... One of your issues was more maneuvers, the feat I listed gives you more maneuvers...

He is. Which is why you need a new class.

Uhmm...ok, if you say so. I however remain unconvinced.

 

[Lanefan]

Plays, of course, are scripted and have very specific things they are attempting to accomplish versus specific defensive concepts. On a pass play, each route is challenging either a specific player or area and thus "forcing" the defense to respond.

However, there's one very different aspect to this sort of thing than you'd find in the average D&D battle in that here one side is specifically trying to avoid contact while the other is trying to initiate it; and all in a rather closed environment (football has rules; war often doesn't). In a D&D battle most of the participants are usually trying to initiate something, usually involving damage to the enemy if successful.

For instance, a "4 vert" concept (combo routes of 2 seam/skinny post routes + 2 fades on the boundaries) is designed to put maximum stress on the 2 Safeties and force them into a catch-22 decision ("stretching" the field vertically and horizontally simultaneously). Depending on how these route combos influence (eg force them to move) the safeties, the QB will make a post-snap read to either throw the seam/skinny post or the fade.

Which is fine for as long as the script holds true. But if the QB has to scramble to avoid pressure and a 3-second play suddenly spans into 7, all bets are off. The receivers do what they can (on their own initiative and choice) to get open, the backs do what they can (at their own choice) to cover them, and the QB just tries not to get killed. (side note: often the quickest way to tell who the best players really are is by how well they do when off-script; how they react when the designed play falls apart)

A D&D battle (almost always) has no pre-set script or series of play calls. Some parties try to design standard operating procedures but every situation is different, and if the party insists on sticking to the SOP all the time they're actually putting themselves at an overall disadvantage..

Lan-"thanks for the primer on what all the pass routes are called"-efan

 

[mellored]

how many Warlord fans would still want to play if it were fluffed as a Henchman to the other characters? Not many?

Plenty.

I've seen warlords as caddies, coach, butler, little kid, damsel in distress, ect..
I've even played a mean little pixie warlord, who would piss up people's eyes to make an opening for the ally to make an attack, or shout out warnings from his flying vantage point.

Nor do I want to play a private to the Warlord's Officer.

Would you tell a wizard who cast haste on you to stop messing with your time?
Would you tell a cleric that you don't want the blessing of his god?
Would you tell the bard you don't appreciate his inspiration?


The "boss of me" issue, isn't a warlord issue.

 

[mellored]

Which is fine for as long as the script holds true. But if the QB has to scramble to avoid pressure and a 3-second play suddenly spans into 7, all bets are off.

So... everyone get's a bonus for their first round of combat.
Then you need to analyse the situation and call plays mid combat.

Personally i think basketball or non-american football would be more appropriate. Combat doesn't reset each round.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

A battlemaster might be good for fighter 15 / caddy 5.
We might be able to add some feats like "helper" to let people push it to fighter 10 / butler 10.
But there's no option for coach 20.

Steeldragons has a pretty neat version over in the homebrew forums (post #24 in this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?466579-Fiddling-with-Fighters/page3) as a fighter subclass which is built (AFAICT) around 1.) additional uses of the help action and 2.) leading by example, so that personal combat by the Warlord can help his allies/minions, e.g. a bonus action prone on a successful attack by the Warlord at mid-levels. I see you have a similar thread in the 5E forum, which looks promising. 5E is the kitbasher's edition.

 

[Manbearcat]

As a quick aside. I wonder if a fitting Rogue subclass would be the good base class for a Warlord. Maybe a Shrewd Strategist/Master Logician or something...a subclass that could pull double duty in accomplishing Captain Winters from Band of Brothers or Hannibal from the A Team - Warlords - and Sherlock Holmes. The class can give out bonus dice for skills and combat abilities (handing out Advantage and basically his own Sneak Attack - like an Insightful Strike) and also have stuff that gives enhanced mobility and gets you out of trouble. Then you can maybe you could dip a couple levels into Fighter for some Battlemaster stuff and take Inspiring Leader. There would need to be a feat that basically gave out Inspiring Word.

I wonder if that would do the trick (at the cost of creating a new Rogue subclass and an Inspiring Word feat). You could probably accomplish a bunch of various Warlord archetypes (Vanguard Leader, Lazy-Lord, Princess) and also get some cool Rogue archetypes out of it.