D&D 5E Carrion Crawler Queen lair

[Quickleaf]

Damage of each Tentacle? And the to Hit bonus?
lt seems the Queen can hit the entire Party every round with Multi attack, that does not let them ever heal up, and they're still squishy at level 2.

Same as a regular carrion crawler, which I've pasted below for your convenient perusal:

Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 10ft., one creature. Hit: 4 (1 d4 + 2) poison damage, and the target must succeed on a DC 13 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 minute. Until this poison ends, the target is paralyzed. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the poison on itself on a success.

Drop the Multiattack to 3 or maybe even 2 attacks. That's what the summoned minions are for, to protect the Queen.

First, the queen has no ranged attacks. The summoned minions are to reach characters staying back at range.

Second, the multiattack has a built-in limit of 1 tentacle/character.

Third, damage per round is consistent with a CR 3 monster, but likely to be even lower because some attacks will miss.

Fourth, did you read the part about a paralyzed creature getting a saving throw each turn? In addition, the paladin's lay on hands can remove poison (and therefor paralysis), and the swanmay has lesser restoration 1/day.

Fifth, this is intended to be a call back to the old school carrion crawler with its flurry of eight tentacle attacks. It's meant to be scary.

I'm assuming the party has to wade thru the liar and won't face the Carrion Queen unharmed. Only the Cleric and Paladin have healing options, and the Paladin is limited to 10 HP via Lay on Hands.
So unless a Long Rest is possible right before boss encounter (not likely in a Liar), or almost everyone is stocking multiple healing potions, might need to scale back the multi attack.

The lair is fairly small. There were 6 carrion crawlers total, and the PCs have already killed 4 of them (like I stated in the OP). So the opposition I was planning consists entirely of what I listed in the OP: queen, 2 crawlers, 2+ swarms of insects.

It's very possible the PCs will be going into this as fresh as they can. There's a bit of hex crawl exploration happening to find the lair in the first place, so there is the off chance the PCs will tangle with some other critters in a different cave and decide to keep pushing and tumble into the carrion crawler's lair, yes. I'd say it's a 50/50 toss-up depending on how gung-ho the players are feeling.

 

[Quickleaf]

Not that it matters a lot, but why are those Lair Actions and not Legendary Actions?

Legendary Actions have a completely different format that Lair Actions. You'll need to look over the MM to see what I mean.

EDIT: Yes, I'm breaking the mold, giving a non-legendary monster Lair Actions. Because I'm the DM is why!

But if you were speaking to them seeming more like instrinsic abilities to the Queen, rather than ways she exploits her lair, I suppose I could see that.

What sort of cool Lair Actions would you recommend?

 

[Quickleaf]

Given that the protagonists have 9 independent turns between them (6 PCs plus 3 NPCs), if anything I think the queen isn't nearly tough enough. A bit of focused fire and she will be out before she has a chance to do much.

But I don't think boosting HP is the right move. Instead, this could be mitigated with positioning. Those 2 full sized crawlers should be able to break the party up and keep them from all bringing their bursts to bear on the queen. I think you want this setpiece to be awkward for the PCs. Lots of standing water causing difficult terrain, narrow walls for the crawlers to ignore said difficult terrain via spider climb. Maybe elevation changes too, to make it hard to reach the queen or to give her cover, depending on how many are ranged vs Melee.

The boost to 76 HP gives it hit points consistent with a CR 1 monster, which is probably the minimum it needs to be able to hold its own against focused fire

I'm envisioning a main chamber with three adjoining chambers that are basically deep pools. The pools are connected to each other via underwater tunnels, so the queen can swim between the pools to approach the main chamber from a different angle of attack if need be. The chamber on the far right has a sort of ante-chamber with knee-deep water filled with carrion crawler eggs.

 

[werecorpse]

I like it. Very evocative of the scene in Aliens when they marines are exploring the power plant. Put an egg inside a body just for show.

I like the scream having an extra effect against those with sensitive ears.

The normal carrion crawler gets +8 bonus to hit with it's tentacles. I assumed this was meant to be a +4 bonus to indicate lots of tentacles attacking. If this is right having 6 attacks at +8 indicates indicates a truckload of tentacles. I haven't looked at the level based calculations but having all the attacks dependent on that single bag of hit points means that it could be a very swingy combat.

Great use of an old standard monster.

 

[Quickleaf]

It's five tentacle strikes, and one bite. The tentacles have a '15 reach, and the bite is probably vs an adjacent creature. I doubt that all the PCs will be with in reach, especially the warlock and the sorcerer, heck the cleric will probably also be hanging back. At any time, I think it likely that only half the party will be in danger of the tentacles.

My thinking exactly.

Calls re-enforcements as a lair action, which may or may not happen at the DM's discretion. You also have to take into account the the PCs have effectively three extra party members due to NPCs, which means more attacks and actions per round, and the scout even has a multi attack action if it's the standard MM version. I'm more worried about what would happen if everyone hits the queen on the first turn nova style. With a Bless spell from the cleric (cast pre-emptively if the party's plan to go in fresh pans out), it is likely that they will hit with most of their attacks, resulting in the queen's 76 hp vanishing pretty quickly.

I considered giving her a reaction ability that triggers when reduced to less than half hit points, something to let her slink back into the water. I was concerned it would feel like too much, but you're right. A nova round could whittle the Queen down quick.

Hmm, since lair actions kick in at initiative count 20, maybe some kind of movement/swimming lair action would resolve this?

 

[Quickleaf]

I like it. Very evocative of the scene in Aliens when they marines are exploring the power plant. Put an egg inside a body just for show.

Hah, I'll have to do that. Aliens is a good comparison.

The normal carrion crawler gets +8 bonus to hit with it's tentacles. I assumed this was meant to be a +4 bonus to indicate lots of tentacles attacking. If this is right having 6 attacks at +8 indicates indicates a truckload of tentacles. I haven't looked at the level based calculations but having all the attacks dependent on that single bag of hit points means that it could be a very swingy combat.

So, monster CR calculations are based on an average of defensive CR and offensive CR.

The MM carrion crawler is CR 2. Its defensive CR is clearly 1/2 (hp 51, ac 13), so I'm guessing it's offensive CR was determined to be 3 by some combination of its DPR 11 and +8 tentacle attack with DC 13 save vs. poison/paralysis.

The carrion crawler queen I'm aiming to be about CR 3. Its defensive CR is clearly 1 (hp 76, ac 13). Which gives me an offensive CR of 5 to play with in monster design.

With its 5 tentacle attacks dealing 4.5 damage on average (and its bite of 7 damage), that's a potential DPR of 29.5 (CR 4), bumped up one CR due to a +8 attack modifier (CR 5).

The paralyzation ability should bump it up +1 or +2 CR more offensively.

However, consider that even with a large party no more than 3 or 4 characters are likely to be in melee with the queen. Also consider that the tentacle attacks are restricted to one per creature. So the queen probably won't get to use all those tentacle attacks, and thus its DPR (as well as the number of creatures it's potentially paralyzing will be less.

So I called it a break even, and left it at CR 5 offensively.

[CR 1 (defense) + CR 5 (offense)] / 2 = CR 3

Great use of an old standard monster.

Thanks!

 

[dd.stevenson]

Legendary Actions have a completely different format that Lair Actions. You'll need to look over the MM to see what I mean.

EDIT: Yes, I'm breaking the mold, giving a non-legendary monster Lair Actions. Because I'm the DM is why!

But if you were speaking to them seeming more like instrinsic abilities to the Queen, rather than ways she exploits her lair, I suppose I could see that.

What sort of cool Lair Actions would you recommend?

The last two actions look like legendaries to me--they're more reactive, and might make the fight seem more dynamic if they happen at unpredictable intervals.

Cool lair actions... hmmm. Some kind of ranged aoe effect seems about right; like maybe an exploding egg pod spreading noxious goo, or a foul stench blowing out of tunnels at intervals spreading choking those caught in it?

 

[Scorpio616]

The MM carrion crawler is CR 2. Its defensive CR is clearly 1/2 (hp 51, ac 13), so I'm guessing it's offensive CR was determined to be 3 by some combination of its DPR 11 and +8 tentacle attack with DC 13 save vs. poison/paralysis.

Oh, I was really annoyed that the DMG left out the "CR-ing value" of an attack that paralyzes! Have you seen any educated guesses?

 

[Tanaka Chris]

Well, Paralyze is by far the most debilitating condition to be in.
Incapacitate --> Stun --> Paralyze in the order or danger.

Well, if it's a hard fight to be giving your players then that's definitely going to work .
Keep in mind the Poisoned condition will be making all checks and attack rolls at a Disadvantage, so the battle might drag.

If the characters do go Nova and manage to off the Queen too fast....
Artificially increase the Queen's HP by having her 'slough' off her skin with a fresh body underneath, think temp HP for this Boss
If the Party is battered, then she can also have less attacks as her fresh body isn't fully ready

 

[Quickleaf]

The last two actions look like legendaries to me--they're more reactive, and might make the fight seem more dynamic if they happen at unpredictable intervals.

Cool lair actions... hmmm. Some kind of ranged aoe effect seems about right; like maybe an exploding egg pod spreading noxious goo, or a foul stench blowing out of tunnels at intervals spreading choking those caught in it?

That's a good idea! I like how you guys have been encouraging me to play up the CARRION aspect thematically.

About the legendary vs. lair difference, legendary actions are more of a power boost (which probably should be reflected in the CR), whereas lair actions are more of a thematic boost. Thematic is definitely what I'm going for in this case. Even thought I could give it legendary actions, there's narrative disconnect there for me because I don't see this carrion crawler queen on the same magnitude of Legendary as an aboleth, dragon, or lich.