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D&D 5E How many fans want a 5E Warlord?

How many fans want a 5E Warlord?

  • I want a 5E Warlord

    Votes: 139 45.9%
  • Lemmon Curry

    Votes: 169 55.8%

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Well, that last one is ridonkulous. While the 1e Ranger is clearly modeled on Aragorn to a pretty high degree, a 'warlord' version would probably fit the character much better, as his primary attribute was actually as a leader. Conan would make an excellent warlord as well, depending on which stories you're reading. I could go on and on, Dorian Hawkmoon, springs almost instantly to mind. Certainly many characters from classical sources would be well modelled as some form of warlord.

The issue is that nearly every character presented as a "warlord" is also a superb warrior. Conan, Aragorn, Dorian Hawkmoon, etc. don't spend the majority of their time commanding companions around and playing medic, they spend the majority of their time in the heat of battle and they are usually as good or better at physically fighting as the warriors around them.
 

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I think a large amount of the objections come from a playstyle perspective...Hear me out! Not a "It's from 4e and 4e is bad" thing.

It's that the idea of "warlord=inspirational leader", Could be an Aragorn (?) could be a Conan (?). No.

Inspirational Leader/Supportive Guy is something any character should/could roleplay. In a game of D&D, for many people, I should not have/take a class to give/make me an "inspirational leader." That is something I get to decide if I want my character to be that or not. Characters of ANY class can be that...Be a fighter. Be a paladin. Be a barbarian...and ROLE-PLAY yourself as/in the "support", "scheming", "battle-hardened/knowledgeable", and/or "leading" role [as that word actually means, not the artificial jargon to justify design choices].

I think this is at the root of a LOT of the warlord push-back. It's a class with no meaning/purpose that isn't/should not be achievable by any possible player roleplaying instead. I should be able to make an Assassin or Illusionist who is a Warlord. Forget about "if I multiclass xyz."

Ranger, nowadays/for those denying its roots in preference of the managerie it has become in the last 15 years or so, runs up against the same problem. A non-paladin "Knight" or Cavalier runs with this pack as well.

Be a fighter. Take outlander. Maybe a few levels of rogue thrown in and a sharpshooter feat [since everyone likes to talk and play as if these things are NOT optional]. There ya go. Ranger. Why do we need the class? Are you going to be Mr. Wilderness Warrior guy? Are you going to be "the druid's paladin"? Are you going to be Robin Hood or Aragorn? Are you going to wear the trappings and roleplay the kind of character you espouse?

Be a fighter. Take noble [or more exact/literal "noble variant: knight"]. Maybe a soldier for a more "down to earth" guy. There's your knight/cavalier. The rest is roleplaying. Are you going to be Ms. Honor/Chivalry/Code of Conduct? Are you going to wear the trappings and roleplay the ideals to which you espouse?

Be a fighter...or a cleric if you think it should be a heal-machine. Take noble or solider...or sage or folk hero, for that matter. Or be a bard, fluff your magic to not be magic if you like. Downplay or simply ignore your spell-use. Throw on some healing skill. Some history skill. Maybe the inspirational leader feat. There's your warlord. The rest is roleplaying.

Folks are objecting, I think without even knowing it in many cases, because the class is [or represents] a class that basically takes that roleplaying-part away from the player and bakes it [or a larger/large enough portion of it to ruffle feathers] into the class.

Roleplaying is NOT mechanics. It can not be replaced or overwritten [in a game that espouses to be a Role-Playing Game] by a list of class features. And that is something many people either a) don't understand, b) don't like/want to understand or c) don't care enough about to see the difference/problem. When you look at the warlord...look at just about ANY of these threads about it...What is the "discussion" and grand majority of the disagreement [even among warlord FANS!] about? The mechanics! What does the warlord "get"? What does the warlord "need" or its not a "warlord"? What can they/should they/must they [a.k.a. "I should be able to"] do?
 


I have yet to see a single literary example of a wizard/paladin/barbarian/druid/rogue that fits a playable RPG character model.
Deflection. And goalpost moving. Start a thread on that topic if you like. It's off topic otherwise. I'm asking someone who is claiming there are literary examples of warlords to provide some. With examples of why they are warlords.

I have seen plenty of those archetypes. But it takes some serious mutilation to make them fit.
This seems contrary to what you just said above.

Seriously, Gandalf would not work in D&D.
Peculiar argument. Would not work in D&D... as what? Because I would not considered Gandalf one of the "PCs" in the various Tolkein's books. More akin to a plot device.
 

It's that the idea of "bard=inspirational leader", Could be an Aragorn (?) could be a Conan (?). No.

Inspirational Leader/Supportive Guy is something any character should/could roleplay. In a game of D&D, for many people, I should not have/take a class to give/make me an "inspirational leader." That is something I get to decide if I want my character to be that or not. Characters of ANY class can be that...Be a fighter. Be a paladin. Be a barbarian...and ROLE-PLAY yourself as/in the "support", "scheming", "battle-hardened/knowledgeable", and/or "leading" role [as that word actually means, not the artificial jargon to justify design choices].

I think this is at the root of a LOT of the bard push-back. It's a class with no meaning/purpose that isn't/should not be achievable by any possible player roleplaying instead. I should be able to make an Assassin or Illusionist who is a bard. Forget about "if I multiclass xyz."

Ranger, nowadays/for those denying its roots in preference of the managerie it has become in the last 15 years or so, runs up against the same problem. A non-paladin "Knight" or Cavalier runs with this pack as well.

Be a fighter. Take outlander. Maybe a few levels of rogue thrown in and a sharpshooter feat [since everyone likes to talk and play as if these things are NOT optional]. There ya go. Ranger. Why do we need the class? Are you going to be Mr. Wilderness Warrior guy? Are you going to be "the druid's paladin"? Are you going to be Robin Hood or Aragorn? Are you going to wear the trappings and roleplay the kind of character you espouse?

Be a fighter. Take noble [or more exact/literal "noble variant: knight"]. Maybe a soldier for a more "down to earth" guy. There's your knight/cavalier. The rest is roleplaying. Are you going to be Ms. Honor/Chivalry/Code of Conduct? Are you going to wear the trappings and roleplay the ideals to which you espouse?

Be a fighter...or a cleric if you think it should be a heal-machine. Take noble or solider...or sage or folk hero, for that matter. Or be a warlord, fluff your non magic to not be magic if you like. Downplay or simply ignore your martial abilities. Throw on some healing spells. Some history skill. Maybe the inspirational leader feat. There's your bard. The rest is roleplaying.

Folks are objecting, I think without even knowing it in many cases, because the class is [or represents] a class that basically takes that roleplaying-part away from the player and bakes it [or a larger/large enough portion of it to ruffle feathers] into the class.

Roleplaying is NOT mechanics. It can not be replaced or overwritten by a list of class features. And that is something many people either a) don't understand, b) don't like/want to understand or c) don't care enough about to see the difference/problem. When you look at the bard...look at just about ANY of these threads about it...What is the "discussion" and grand majority of the disagreement [even among bard FANS!] about? The mechanics! What does the bard "get"? What does the bard "need" or its not a "bard"? What can they/should they/must they [a.k.a. "I should be able to"] do?
Fixed that for ya...
:p

Though, i could do that with pretty much any class.
 

I think some people need to actually open up their skulls and air out their brains. Something got stale in there around 1980.


Let's make something clear - arguments of the form, "You must have something wrong in your head to disagree with me," are generally rude, and a great way to get a moderator to come to you and remind you that you should not make the argument personal.

Please get it into your own brain that it is okay for others to have an opinion that differs from yours - disagreeing with you is *NOT* an indication of some flaw of mind or character.

In general, we expect folks to SHOW RESPECT for each other, rather than make negative comments on each other's mentation. Everyone, please do so from this point on in the thread. Thank you.
 


I don't think if a Warlord matches something in a fantasy movie or novel is very important but looking over the class it seems like its a perfect fit for 4e, a lot of buffing and abilities related to map control and tactical miniatures movement, with healing as well. I don't think they want to emphasize such things in 5e so I can see why they didn't include it. I doubt they are going to make a tactical miniatures module for 5e so I don't see the class coming back, but I could be wrong and they could redo it to make it more a fit for 5e philosophy. The vitriol on either side of the debate is pretty nuts at times I must say.
 

I don't think if a Warlord matches something in a fantasy movie or novel is very important but looking over the class it seems like its a perfect fit for 4e, a lot of buffing and abilities related to map control and tactical miniatures movement, with healing as well. I don't think they want to emphasize such things in 5e so I can see why they didn't include it. I doubt they are going to make a tactical miniatures module for 5e so I don't see the class coming back, but I could be wrong and they could redo it to make it more a fit for 5e philosophy. The vitriol on either side of the debate is pretty nuts at times I must say.
These are extremely salient points. Well said.
 


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