Running water on Mars?

[Kramodlog]

It wasn't an award, it was a letter. Rush was the biggest national radio host with a conservative oriented program in the US at the time.

And reaching that many people doesn't translate into influence over Republicans and conservatives!?

I've said he has little actual influence.

Size is a quantitative argument, not a qualitative one.

I said he was an entertainer

And that means it is impossible for him to have influence?

He's a lightening rod. He lightening rodded very well that year, and the Republicans were high off of winning a massive landside in Congress. They were giddy, and Rush was a well known phenomenon at the time. But, and this is kinda key, the thing he did that year was talk up the Contract with America. He didn't propose anything new, and that was carried everywhere.

Ok, so he talked up the Contract with America. He promoted it. He said positive things about it and Republicans to his large audience. It had an impact on his audience and on their voting. That isn't influence!?

Hard to credit Rush with that win, at best he had a small effect.

Well, if he had an effect, that is influence. The size of the effect is quantitative, something we aren't discussing here.

Also, to be clear, I didn't credit Limbaugh with any win. No one in this thread said that Limbaugh is the only person responsable for Republican wins or policies for that matter. What people in the thread have said is that he has influence on some of the Republican base and that has repercutions on the party, its politicians and policies. How much influence is a quantitative argument and we aren't discussing that. And to be clear, having influence doesn't mean he is the only one with influence on Republicans.

He can affect Republican perceptions of issues and that is Limbaugh's real power. Did he participate him the negative perception the Republican base had of Speaker Boehner? Or The Affordable Health Care Act? Does he influence the gridlock in congress by saying compromize with Democrates and Obama is a bad thing? Does he has a influence on Republican perception of global warming? You might say it is a small influence, but that is influence. His voice contributes to shaping opinions and ultimately policies among Republicans.

That all of the newly elected members decided to slap him on the back doesn't really show much qualitatively.

Well, qualitative means quality. Here we have some of the Republican party elite thanking him for his influence in their election to congress. It is hard to get a better (quality) slap on the back, wouldn't you say?

An appeal to zero sum logic in a situation (politics) where it clearly doesn't apply is kinda confusing to me.

Maybe it is the wrong expression, but if Limbaugh had no influence, why invite him in the caucus in the first place? They made him a member of the caucus just because they found him entertaining? Not to thank him or score points with some voters?

I said the incidents were isolated, meaning they were not representative of the continuity of his being on air as a national broadcaster.

I think you're overstating what influence needs to be. For you it seems that a person needs to have an impact each election to be called influencial. Wouldn't you say that if a person talks about politics to a large segment of the population almost everyday, that the person will have some influence on that segment of the population when it comes to politics? Even if he is an entertainer?

That's the first really good point I've seen and a solid point in favor of the argument that Rush is a Republican leader.

Thank you. My next set will be at 8 pm. You need to be 18 or older, cause it gets a little blue.

My only qualitative contention is that Steele often stepped on himself, and fumbled around the leadership of the party for the two years he was in. He lost very convincingly in the next election. The time that Steele was in was a very precarious one for Republicans. They had just lost to Obama and were losing seats in Congress. They were are a local minimum of power. That's when Rush has the most influence -- when the Republicans are least in power -- because his small influence is magnified in the search for as many votes as possible. I rest this argument against by noting that no other leader of the party has rushed out to announce Rush as a conservative leader. Granted, they don't insult him, either, they just ignore him.

Or are afraid of him. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...publican-leaders-are-afraid-of-rush-limbaugh/

 

[Ovinomancer]

And reaching that many people doesn't translate into influence over Republicans and conservatives!?

Never claimed he had no influence. Not going to bother restating my position since I've said it multiple times. Go back and reread.

Size is a quantitative argument, not a qualitative one.

No, size is qualitative, it's a quality something has. A qualitative argument is on things you count. You can count big things and you can count not big things, but the value of big is qualitative, not quantitative.

And that means it is impossible for him to have influence?

Ok, so he talked up the Contract with America. He promoted it. He said positive things about it and Republicans to his large audience. It had an impact on his audience and on their voting. That isn't influence!?

Well, if he had an effect, that is influence. The size of the effect is quantitative, something we aren't discussing here.

Also, to be clear, I didn't credit Limbaugh with any win. No one in this thread said that Limbaugh is the only person responsable for Republican wins or policies for that matter. What people in the thread have said is that he has influence on some of the Republican base and that has repercutions on the party, its politicians and policies. How much influence is a quantitative argument and we aren't discussing that. And to be clear, having influence doesn't mean he is the only one with influence on Republicans.

He can affect Republican perceptions of issues and that is Limbaugh's real power. Did he participate him the negative perception the Republican base had of Speaker Boehner? Or The Affordable Health Care Act? Does he influence the gridlock in congress by saying compromize with Democrates and Obama is a bad thing? Does he has a influence on Republican perception of global warming? You might say it is a small influence, but that is influence. His voice contributes to shaping opinions and ultimately policies among Republicans.

I started to respond these individually, but I realized I was just typing that I never made that argument and you should go back and reread.

Well, qualitative means quality. Here we have some of the Republican party elite thanking him for his influence in their election to congress. It is hard to get a better (quality) slap on the back, wouldn't you say?

Then define a less quality backslap. You can't do a qualitative analysis unless you're distinguishing between the relative quality of a group of the same things. So, for backlslaps, you'd have to have a measure for which backslaps are better than other backslaps. You've just counted a backslap and presume it's of high quality. Doesn't work like that.

Maybe it is the wrong expression, but if Limbaugh had no influence, why invite him in the caucus in the first place? They made him a member of the caucus just because they found him entertaining? Not to thank him or score points with some voters?

I think you're overstating what influence needs to be. For you it seems that a person needs to have an impact each election to be called influencial. Wouldn't you say that if a person talks about politics to a large segment of the population almost everyday, that the person will have some influence on that segment of the population when it comes to politics? Even if he is an entertainer?

See statement above re: not my argument.

Thank you. My next set will be at 8 pm. You need to be 18 or older, cause it gets a little blue.

Excellent. One hopes you'll be better prepared for your next set, and could possibly address the things the other posters have actually said. A second act of setting fire to strawmen won't be nearly as interesting.

Or are afraid of him. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...publican-leaders-are-afraid-of-rush-limbaugh/

Yup, I'd agree Democrats are afraid of him, which is why they take every opportunity to attack him over anything controversial he says. Most Republicans go, "oh, Rush is a jerk again," and move on.

 

[Maxperson]

About half the things Rush says are serious. The other half are him joking to see how much he can tweak the liberal media noses and see what he can get them to repeat. You can hear the difference in his tones.

I occasionally listen to him for the comedic value.

 

[Kramodlog]

Never claimed he had no influence.

So why did you want to discuss if he was influencial, a quality, in the first place?

No, size is qualitative, it's a quality something has.

Being infuencial is a quality someone has, or not. Amount of influence is quantity. Limbaugh's influence is in limited in quantity according to you, so he has little impact on Republicans, but you do agree he is influencial, a quality.

I started to respond these individually, but I realized I was just typing that I never made that argument and you should go back and reread.

So, if you agree he has influence, why deny he has that quality? The amount of his influence is another subject matter.

Then define a less quality backslap.

The award for outstanding achievement in the field of excellence.

You can't do a qualitative analysis unless you're distinguishing between the relative quality of a group of the same things. So, for backlslaps, you'd have to have a measure for which backslaps are better than other backslaps. You've just counted a backslap and presume it's of high quality. Doesn't work like that.

Now you're not debating in good faith. You might as well say that you ignore the value of being named an honorary member of North Dakota's Argusville's chamber of commerce.

See statement above re: not my argument.

Actually, you've said many times Limbaugh was an entertainer to diminishing the scope of his importance and influence.

Yup, I'd agree Democrats are afraid of him, which is why they take every opportunity to attack him over anything controversial he says. Most Republicans go, "oh, Rush is a jerk again," and move on.

Except the article I linked was about Republican leadership being afraid of him...

 

[Kramodlog]

Good news. Some people think The Martian film is based on a true story. Trump is so gonna be the next president. http://www.buzzfeed.com/perpetua/the-martian-is-not-a-true-story#.xtZr3GbQA

 

[Ovinomancer]

So why did you want to discuss if he was influencial, a quality, in the first place?

Being infuencial is a quality someone has, or not. Amount of influence is quantity. Limbaugh's influence is in limited in quantity according to you, so he has little impact on Republicans, but you do agree he is influencial, a quality.

So, if you agree he has influence, why deny he has that quality? The amount of his influence is another subject matter.

The award for outstanding achievement in the field of excellence.

Now you're not debating in good faith. You might as well say that you ignore the value of being named an honorary member of North Dakota's Argusville's chamber of commerce.

Actually, you've said many times Limbaugh was an entertainer to diminishing the scope of his importance and influence.

Except the article I linked was about Republican leadership being afraid of him...

You're continuing to misrepresent my arguments in favor of one you supply. I can't answer many of your points because they pertain to arguments I'm not making, and I'm disinclined to respond to the few that don't because they're spin-off arguments from ones you're misrepresenting. If you'd like to make an attempt to read what I've said in the thread and discuss that, I'm game. Otherwise, enjoy.

 

[Kramodlog]

You're continuing to misrepresent my arguments in favor of one you supply.

Which qualitative argument are you talking about?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Which qualitative argument are you talking about?

Pick one.

 

[Kramodlog]

Pick one.

Help me out.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Help me out.

My posts start at post number 2.