D&D 5E (2014) Pacing, Rests, and Scale

[abirdcall]

The one element of 5e that I have been having the hardest time with is pacing.

I like the idea of short and long rests. The problem when the game is balanced around 6-8 encounters and 2 short rests per long rest, is that it becomes unbalanced when that is deviated from.

In my last campaign I tried out the 'gritty realism' variant. 8 hours for a short rest and 7 days for a long rest. I used it for the narrative. I ended up waiving it in safe places like towns.

This created some problems, the most significant being that the players didn't know when they could rest effectively.

I have come a conclusion and I am going to try something new in my next campaign (OotA). Altering rest by scale.

If characters are in an environment like a town or a dungeon where they are moving in a scale of feet, then they can rest in the regular 1hr/8hr time frame.

If the scale is different such as with overland (or under...) travel then a short rest will be something like 4-6 hours whereas a long rest is more in the 16 hour range. Enough time to set up camp, have dinner, have a nice long rest, have breakfast, prepare, forage a bit, etc.

Resting is more about the narrative than simulation. After a successful long rest the tension melts away.

I like it because it maintains the short and long rest dynamics and myself and the players should know when to apply it successfully.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I don't like it, because it's hard for me to understand from an in-character perspective. Whether you go with 1hr/8hr or 8hr/1wk, it's easier to understand (in-character) that this is how the world works, maybe not down to the minute scientifically, but in broad strokes. Either the gods hand out spells on a daily basis, or on a weekly basis. Either HP represent superficial injury and mostly stamina, or they're less stamina and slightly deeper injury.

I don't get how the reality which the game system is modelling can change depending on whether or not you're in town, unless all rest-based resources represent different aspects of fatigue and a real bed is just that much more comfortable than a bed roll.

 

[Rhenny]

Try it and let us know how it works.

For my group resting has not been an issue at all. Part of the pacing for my games includes having the tension melt away at times. The peaks and valleys of tension and near death are important for sustaining longer term enjoyment and excitement. Just like an action adventure novel or thriller, there should be moments of relative safety and rejuvenation. Players get happy when they achieve long rest conditions. The key is that when the PCs are in a dangerous area, it just gets harder to complete a rest. Even the 1 hour rest can easily be disrupted, and getting a full long rest really only happens when I telegraph/foreshadow that an area is safe enough to even attempt the long rest. (Of course, none of the PCs in my party have Leomund spells to give them a safe place to rest yet). Most importantly, I try to make the focus of the campaign achieving objectives that are more than just survival and defeating foes. If the players explore and interact with the world and find clues that lead them in a meaningful direction, and they become curious about odds and ends or npcs they meet or rumors they hear, or they get rewarded by the authorities or get in trouble and have to keep hidden from a faction, etc, it doesn't really even matter if they have enough combats to deplete their resources. Heck, in some games, they don't even get scratched by an enemy, yet they are still afraid that things might go south or that life around them is spinning out of control and they need to find a way to stop it.

You probably didn't really want that kind of response, but it just came out as I was typing. Honestly, what you propose seems fine...but the bottom line is that you should do whatever really works best for you and your group.

Cheers.

 

[discosoc]

I do short rests once a day (typically when resting for the night), and long rests once a week when they commit to half a day resting and/or resupplying in a somewhat safe location, etc.. The main thing is to let players know under what circumstances they can expect a long rest, so that they can plan for it. Even if they are in hostile territory, I have allowed long rests if they put some major effort into securing an area to facilitate such a break (set traps, patrols, etc.). In many cases, the extra day spent resting can change how the adventure plays out as well.

Lastly, I make it known that we will default to the normal rules whenever a significant dungeon crawl is expected, since those tend to have the 6-8 encounters a day built in.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I think, if you are going to be concerned with balance on as granular a scale as rest-to-rest, that this is probably going to result in the best fit for you - so long as you and your players are clear on when and how the scale changes.

 

[n0nym]

I've had the same problem too. I've chosen to use gritty realism but instead of 7 days for a long rest, I've reduced it to 24 hours.

This way if they really have to, the players can still take a long rest during a session but they need a safe haven and their ennemies can take advantage of this time to get prepared.

 

[CapnZapp]

I have this problem in the underdark of OotA.

I'd be lucky to have two encounters separated by a short rest between each long rest if I ran the module strictly by the book.

My solution? Use the "bad dreams" described by the scenario to justify a DC 10 saving throw each night.

Failure means you did not get the long rest benefits.

Merely the smallest risk of each night not providing a full long rest should make the players save their resources much more. (And a DC 10 save isn't so easy to make at low level)

At least, that's what I hope.

 

[abirdcall]

I don't like it, because it's hard for me to understand from an in-character perspective. Whether you go with 1hr/8hr or 8hr/1wk, it's easier to understand (in-character) that this is how the world works, maybe not down to the minute scientifically, but in broad strokes. Either the gods hand out spells on a daily basis, or on a weekly basis. Either HP represent superficial injury and mostly stamina, or they're less stamina and slightly deeper injury.

I don't get how the reality which the game system is modelling can change depending on whether or not you're in town, unless all rest-based resources represent different aspects of fatigue and a real bed is just that much more comfortable than a bed roll.

Gods give out spells when the character is ready to receive them.

It's the same thing that happen in action and fantasy movies. Either all travel is skipped and we next see the protagonists resting somewhere or ready to do battle or whatever, or we see them on the run. The division is in how they feel about it.

Basically, if you are going to have 1 encounter per long rest, you might as well just skip the whole thing and go straight to the dungeon.

Just like an action adventure novel or thriller, there should be moments of relative safety and rejuvenation. Players get happy when they achieve long rest conditions. The key is that when the PCs are in a dangerous area, it just gets harder to complete a rest. Even the 1 hour rest can easily be disrupted, and getting a full long rest really only happens when I telegraph/foreshadow that an area is safe enough to even attempt the long rest.

That is the idea, to use it as a narrative device, because that is what it is. Getting completely better every time you go to sleep doesn't make sense. It can make sense storywise though. It signifies a threat overcome. What hurt them no longer has an effect.

I am not sure it would be fun for my group to disrupt resting. Interrupt it, yes, but, to say, no you weren't able to rest now you need to start over until I am satisfied they have had enough encounters.

The goal, really, is to match the scale that they are in.

Let's say they are on an 8 day journey. Do you have 8 long rests and 20-25 encounters? That makes for not only a tedious slog, but also a very dangerous trip. Who makes these trips? Why don't people stay in their homes? Also, why go to a scale that skips time if you're not going to let any time get skipped anyway.

Instead you could have 2 long rests and 8-10 encounters.

I have this problem in the underdark of OotA.

I'd be lucky to have two encounters separated by a short rest between each long rest if I ran the module strictly by the book.

My solution? Use the "bad dreams" described by the scenario to justify a DC 10 saving throw each night.

Failure means you did not get the long rest benefits.

Merely the smallest risk of each night not providing a full long rest should make the players save their resources much more. (And a DC 10 save isn't so easy to make at low level)

At least, that's what I hope.

I think the concern I have here is having some characters get a long rest while others don't. It won't be very fun for those players.





Sounds like a lot of people are doing something similar and it is working out. That is good to know.

 

[Minigiant]

I wouldn't use it as the PCs won't understand it from their eyes.

I use a "mana/life force" excuse. Resting in places with too little free flowing life mana in the environment slows down resting if you arent native. So resting in a dark dungeon is nearly impossible to long rest in.

The other restriction is flow. IG a place has too much population density, there isn't enough life mana to go around so it takes days to long rest. So sleeping in a regular inn in a metropolis is no good.

The ways around this is to rest in the wilderness but that risks wid animals interrupting you. The other is to use magic spells to inject or rest life mana in an area. Or you can rest in an holy/unholy place or a tavern with regular life mana injections. Or become a native.

Note: rangers and outlanders are always native in their favored terrain.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

I use the normal way recommended by WotC.

Also, I tend to just tell my players about resting after combat. Like, I usually know after combat if they are wounded enough to consider a rest. Then I say something like "If you want you could take a short rest, but it will take at least one hour and the area isn't secure. You could also opt that only some of you take a rest."

And then when the day comes to an end and the group just did a short rest I tell them: "You start to feel sleepy, you probably won't be able to take another short rest today, but you can do a long rest starting after next battle if you wish to. It'll waste 8 hours of time and you better find a secure position for it though."

So my player generally never have a problem knowing with how to deal with sleeping as I just tell them their options.