D&D 5E (2014) Pacing, Rests, and Scale

[Gadget]

I've had the same problem too. I've chosen to use gritty realism but instead of 7 days for a long rest, I've reduced it to 24 hours.

This way if they really have to, the players can still take a long rest during a session but they need a safe haven and their ennemies can take advantage of this time to get prepared.

Something along these lines seems like it would be the best option. The problem with the default 'gritty' rules is that it is likely to change the ratio of short to long rests. The normal rules usually net 1 or 2 short rests per long rest. The 'gritty' version would probably result in at least 4 or 5 short rests to each long rest, thus making the short rest reliant classes shine more than they normally would.

Also, spells with a fairly long duration that are meant to be recast-able every 'day' suffer a little in the gritty mode and may need to be taken into account: Mage Armor is one I can think of off the top of my head. One may be hesitant to cast these spells if they know that they are not going to get the slot back the next 'day' (Arcane Recovery notwithstanding).

 

[Kalshane]

We've been trying short rests are only 10 minutes, but you can't benefit from more than 2 short rests per day. The one hour short rest seems overly prohibitive in most scenarios, but I don't want a 4th Ed situation where you just automatically short rest after every fight. We've only being doing this for a couple months so far, but it hasn't caused us any problems.

 

[Creamsteak]

Thoughts? Suggestions?

The first thing that comes to mind is to establish what your goal with the pacing and mechanics is. What do you want the game to be good at? What concessions are you willing to make to get there? There are multiple moving parts involved, so you have to choose which toggles and configurations you are willing to change and which you are not.

One option is to do nothing. The consequence of this is that any time your adventuring day is too short or too long, things will be too easy or too hard. The one encounter nova adventuring day has been a problem with many other editions of the game. You can choose to just let it happen as it goes. Sometimes it's a reward for player ingenuity (they avoided an encounter, via stealth, subterfuge, diplomacy, etc). Other times it's just a consequence of the way the adventure is structured (long term overland travel).

Another option might be to establish up-front that a stressful/comfortable rest is different. Perhaps a long rest during a stressful period only recharges half your resources.

There are other levers you can mess with. You can intentionally structure the adventures/encounters in different ways to expend resources. This obviously takes more work. I've actually been working on an adventure (Halloween one-shot) using 5e rules where the players likely won't get a long rest unless they can make it to the half-way mark in the adventure. But that's a situation where I have full control and it's very specifically structured. I've actually divided it up into a relatively strict two-act structure. I've also introduced some alternative resource management as well for that... but I couldn't easily do that over a whole campaign.

Yet another alternative would be to go full gamist... and basically reward a rest only once enough encounters are faced. There are ways to maybe make that fit into the game, but many people would balk at that.

 

[abirdcall]

The first thing that comes to mind is to establish what your goal with the pacing and mechanics is.

You are right, I should have stated the goal more clearly.

I want to add tension and adventure to overland travel while keeping to 5e's standard pacing balance. I also don't want to jeopardize regular play which I think is working fine.

My conclusion is that the pacing of overland travel falls apart because the scale is changed for everything except for rests. My solution is to change rests during this time to reflect the change in scale.

Yet another alternative would be to go full gamist... and basically reward a rest only once enough encounters are faced. There are ways to maybe make that fit into the game, but many people would balk at that.

You could call it that. I think a similar solution can be arrived at through a narrative framework rather than a purely gamist one. Action movies often do this. The protagonist fights a bunch, gets injured, then tension rises as they must overcome more and more obstacles to reach some goal, which often involves rest. Then there is a scene where they are resting and secure. Then their injuries no longer bother them. We accept that even though it doesn't make sense from a simulation perspective. The story wouldn't work if the protagonist had a scene where they fight, then they rest and are all better, then they fight, etc. It would just be boring because there are no stakes.

Either I am going to hand wave overland travel or I am going to have multiple encounters and some short rests between each long rest. It doesn't work to have a bunch of encounters every day on a long trek so here I am.

 

[jrowland]

Well, FWIW, if your going Narrative Resting, go all the way.

The fact that you designate a time for each rest pullsaway from the narrative. It becomes crunch. Drop the time scale.

In the Dungeon/City:
PCs: "We take a Short Rest" or "We take a long rest"
DM: "Ok, but its interrupted by X and doesn't apply yet, roll initiative" or "Ok, it works."

In the overland journey:
PCs: "We take a Short Rest" or "We take a long rest"
DM: "Ok, but its interrupted by X and doesn't apply yet, roll initiative" or "Ok, it works."

No need to worry about time scales. A rest is as long as it should be. If resting in the dungeon is ludicrous given the creatures hunting the PCs, it gets interrupted. If, in your mind, a 15 min rest is ok but a 45 min rest is not, but you are ok with a rest, let them rest.

Whatever. If you don't narrate the time, it doesn't matter

 

[Tony Vargas]

The one element of 5e that I have been having the hardest time with is pacing.

I like the idea of short and long rests. The problem when the game is balanced around 6-8 encounters and 2 short rests per long rest, is that it becomes unbalanced when that is deviated from.

Of course. That's nothing new for D&D (except for the short rest bit), classes have different resource mixes, so they only balance at a point.

In my last campaign I tried out the 'gritty realism' variant. 8 hours for a short rest and 7 days for a long rest. I used it for the narrative. I ended up waiving it in safe places like towns.

This created some problems, the most significant being that the players didn't know when they could rest effectively.

Sounds like a riot. That is, like your players might riot.

I have come a conclusion and I am going to try something new in my next campaign (OotA). Altering rest by scale.

If characters are in an environment like a town or a dungeon where they are moving in a scale of feet, then they can rest in the regular 1hr/8hr time frame.

If the scale is different such as with overland (or under...) travel then a short rest will be something like 4-6 hours whereas a long rest is more in the 16 hour range. Enough time to set up camp, have dinner, have a nice long rest, have breakfast, prepare, forage a bit, etc. Resting is more about the narrative than simulation. After a successful long rest the tension melts away.

Exact times could be part of the problem. It's not like these medieval fantasy characters have pocket watches. Just let them know when they find a place they /could/ rest, "You find a clearing, it has good places to bed down and start a fire, if you want to rest" and then, if they choose to, when they can get the benefits of a short or long rest. "You've rested for a while and get the benefits of a short rest, the sun is still above the horizon, you could cover some more ground today, but you can't be sure you'll find another suitable campsite for the night" You might also not give out benefits or full benefits. "You rest all night in the clearing, but the droning of unseen insects troubles your dreams: you recover hps & HD, but do not refresh spell slots." Things like that.

 

[Blue]

13th Age (OGL closely related to 3.x, 4e and 5e) solves this by divorcing "one day" and "reset abilities" from each other, calling it a "Full Heal-Up". 13th Age has short rests to spend recoveries like 5e and many resources are per encounter (more like 4e short rest then 5e, but still close). But the "per day" type of things reset after roughly four* encounters instead of a specified time sleeping. This allows at-will, per-encounter, and "per-day" powers to be balanced against each other regardless if it's a fight-a-minute dungeon crawl or a three week caravan guard slog that only has an encounter every few days.

Not only does this keep the powers balanced, but it turns the cautious "we're hurt, better hole up" 15-minute adventuring day into a "we're hurt, but one more encounter an we'll get a full heal-up, let's press on!". Which is a beautiful thing from both sides of the screen.

It's a game with a heavier player-generated narrative then I think the default D&D game is aimed at, and invites the players into helping spin the fiction to keep it in line with the balance. For example, if after one encounter on the road you sleep the night, the GM invites players "why wasn't this a great sleep?". Howling wolves, rain, drinking and playing cards all night, whatever. On the other hand, perhaps the fourth encounter was mid day. A chance to break out the special supplies laid in leaves for a filling meal, and the bard's playing gets everyone fired up. Or perhaps deep in a dungeon (after the fourth battle) a cleric make a fervent prayer to their god, and poof, "daily" spells and resources back, ready to move on. It doesn't need o be a full night's sleep, it just needs an in-game reason.

*Four normal encounters. Nasty encounters count more. Also players are welcome to take a full heal up before four-ish encounters if they can find a safe space to do so. But then there's some campaign setback or repercussion.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Yeah if going narrative style full reset I recommend the 13th Age version - basically up to the DM/story.

My solution for too easy 5e full resets is .... slow healing and custom injuries/setbacks table when reduced to zero hp. So far it seems to work great - players dont want to drop to zero hp (else death save or roll on injury table, discouraging whack a mole and making any combat dangerous/have lingering results), and even a full rest only gives back 1/2 HD (no auto full hp), so there is a significant attrition aspect to the game. Which means if you dont have 6-8 encounters per day it doesnt matter so much ("challenge" wise- the adventure tends to get harder the longer it goes on).

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I've had a lot of issues... in my game I have a warlock and a eldritch knight fighter who want to take as many short rests as possible, and a bard/assassin who can't help but think everything is on a clock

 

[iserith]

The one element of 5e that I have been having the hardest time with is pacing.

I like the idea of short and long rests. The problem when the game is balanced around 6-8 encounters and 2 short rests per long rest, is that it becomes unbalanced when that is deviated from.

In my last campaign I tried out the 'gritty realism' variant. 8 hours for a short rest and 7 days for a long rest. I used it for the narrative. I ended up waiving it in safe places like towns.

This created some problems, the most significant being that the players didn't know when they could rest effectively.

I have come a conclusion and I am going to try something new in my next campaign (OotA). Altering rest by scale.

If characters are in an environment like a town or a dungeon where they are moving in a scale of feet, then they can rest in the regular 1hr/8hr time frame.

If the scale is different such as with overland (or under...) travel then a short rest will be something like 4-6 hours whereas a long rest is more in the 16 hour range. Enough time to set up camp, have dinner, have a nice long rest, have breakfast, prepare, forage a bit, etc.

Resting is more about the narrative than simulation. After a successful long rest the tension melts away.

I like it because it maintains the short and long rest dynamics and myself and the players should know when to apply it successfully.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I recently ran a one-shot based on the Twelve Labors of Hercules. Since this involves a lot of trekking across the Mediterranean between quests and takes place over the span of 12 years, I changed up the resting rules. Each labor was very challenging, in its own way. Perhaps my house rule for this adventure can give you some ideas to use:

House Rule: Epoch Time
Resting will work differently in this scenario. After each labor is resolved, successfully or not, you gain the benefits of a short rest. After four labors are resolved, you gain the benefits of a long rest. For every four labors successfully completed, you gain a level.

Note that while in the fiction many days will pass in between each labor as you travel, you will only gain the benefits of rest in the aforementioned fashion. You're free to describe why you might arrive at subsequent quests short on hit points, hit dice, spells, uses of class features or other resources. Perhaps you fought pirates while sailing to Crete or are recovering from a bout of Stymphalian malaria - whatever makes the most sense to you at the time and contributes to our epic tale.