D&D 5E Disintegrate Vs. Druid

[Maxperson]

The druid has hit points remaining after the damage has been applied, so no dust.

Sure, if you ignore the fact that the druid hit 0 before reversion and triggered disintegrate's ash effect. If you don't ignore that fact, then as written, the druid is ashed and reverted with hit points. There is no rule that says that all damage has to be applied before that effect triggers. The only rule says that if the damage reduces a target to 0, it is ashed. The damage does in fact reduce a wild shaped druid to 0 before reversion happens, so as written it triggers the ash effect.

 

[Arial Black]

There is no rule that says that all damage has to be applied before that effect triggers.

Actually, there is.

You don't check for dust before damage is applied; that would be absurd.

You must apply damage, and then check for dust. Nowhere does it suggest you only apply some of the damage before the dust check. If you don't apply all the damage, then you haven't applied 'the damage'.

And once the damage has been applied, you are performing a dust check on a reverted druid.

 

[seebs]

It should be obvious that it in fact does. The rules explicitly say that the druid is reduced to 0 hit points, then reversion happens and he gets back his old hit point pool. Saying anything else is ignoring the written rules and inventing house rules.



It's what RAW says, though. He has 1 hit pint and will absolutely hit 0 hit points before reversion. The one misreading the rules here is you.

I don't think it matters. Disintegrate doesn't say "if the target remains at zero hit points after everything else in the game has had a chance to proc".

If you are reduced to zero hit points, two things happen: (1) you revert to your normal form (2) you are disintegrated and reduced to ash. It doesn't matter whether or not you stayed at zero hit points; you were clearly reduced to zero hit points.

To put it another way:

The general rule is that at zero you might die if you took a whole lot of damage.

Polymorph type effects have a specific rule that overrides that: You revert to your previous form.

Disintegrate has an even more specific rule, which is that if you reach zero, you are dusted. It doesn't require that you wouldn't otherwise get back from zero, just if you are reduced to zero at all.

 

[Maxperson]

Actually, there is.

You don't check for dust before damage is applied; that would be absurd.

Wow. That's impressive. I don't think I've ever seen multiple fallacies in such a short statement before. First, the Strawman. I never said it happened before damage is applied. I just said it didn't have to wait until it is done. Second is the False Dichotomy. Before and after are not the only two choices. The disintegrate language is fully compatible with happening during damage being dealt.

You must apply damage, and then check for dust. Nowhere does it suggest you only apply some of the damage before the dust check. If you don't apply all the damage, then you haven't applied 'the damage'.

That statement is false. First, the quote is "this damage", not "the damage". So long as "this damage" reduces someone to 0, it doesn't matter how much of the damage it takes to get there. What it doesn't say is "all of this damage."

 

[Eubani]

I am away from my books at the moment but I am sure that there is a section that discusses the order of effects when there are multiple effects that trigger off the one event. Maybe have a read of that before declaring victory or bad arguments.

 

[Imaculata]

Sure, if you ignore the fact that the druid hit 0 before reversion and triggered disintegrate's ash effect. If you don't ignore that fact, then as written, the druid is ashed and reverted with hit points.

Hang on there. The Druid has two health pools. So if one of the health pools is reduced to zero, then he still has the other health pool remaining, and thus can't be reduced to dust. The rules specifically do not call them temporary hit points, because they are two health pools.

 

[Uchawi]

In spirit of this thread, we should all roll up druids with a motivation to hunt down the arcane which upsets the balance of nature.

 

[Maxperson]

Hang on there. The Druid has two health pools. So if one of the health pools is reduced to zero, then he still has the other health pool remaining, and thus can't be reduced to dust. The rules specifically do not call them temporary hit points, because they are two health pools.

There is no rule that says you can't be dead and have hit point remaining, and at least one spell that kills you with hit points remaining which proves that the game allows it. So yes, you can be reduced to dust by RAW if you still have one hit point pool remaining. The disintegrate rules don't care about the number of pools you have. Disintegrate only cares if you are reduced to 0, which happens when the first pool is depleted.

 

[Maxperson]

In spirit of this thread, we should all roll up druids with a motivation to hunt down the arcane which upsets the balance of nature.

I can get behind that.

 

[Arial Black]

Wow. That's impressive. I don't think I've ever seen multiple fallacies in such a short statement before. First, the Strawman. I never said it happened before damage is applied. I just said it didn't have to wait until it is done. Second is the False Dichotomy. Before and after are not the only two choices. The disintegrate language is fully compatible with happening during damage being dealt.

The rules have 'applying damage' as a single step. There is a before and an after. There is no written rule that allows you to split it up into parts.

That statement is false. First, the quote is "this damage", not "the damage". So long as "this damage" reduces someone to 0, it doesn't matter how much of the damage it takes to get there. What it doesn't say is "all of this damage."

'Applying this damage' really is applying all of it, because if you apply less then you haven't applied 'this damage'.

Once you have applied 'this damage', then you already have a reverted druid.

If I can't pay the loan shark $100 dollars, he'll break my kneecaps. I only have $20, so I borrow $80 from my parents. Do my kneecaps get broken because 'technically' I had no money? No, if I pay him on time, he doesn't care.

BTW, disintegrate's dust check is not an 'even more specific' rule than wild shape's reversion rule. Both are specific, and both apply. But the process of applying the damage and reducing the druid's hit points results in a reverted druid instead of a dead beast. The 'dust check' finds a reverted druid, not a beast with 0 hp.