Riddles and Roleplaying

[Demonspell]

I designed a riddle based on Einstein's Riddle for my group as a capstone to one of my modules. Its intended to make the group think and challenge them. My problem is that to me it makes complete sense. I have handed it to a few other people and all of them simply refuse to try it.

The narrative for goes like this.

You enter a large room. unremarkable room lit only bright light from the ceiling shining on a table in the center. It is obvious that several dozen tiny objects sit on the table. Through the dim light you can see there are five niches in the far wall in front of the table. Once you enter the room the door slams shut behind you. Floating about forty feet above the table is a gnarled wooden staff.
Approaching the table you see there are a couple dozen items around the periphery to your right and left. In the center is a carving of the room with niches along the wall in front of the table. As you gaze at the table words suddenly appear.

[TD="bgcolor: #dce6f2"] You have travelled far and your journey is not yet at an end. Answer my riddle and you shall receive that which you seek. Fail this task and pain you shall reap. Before you are the tombs of five great warriors Resting here for the coming timekeepers To reach them you must assemble their figures Place them with the correct set of fixtures To gain your treasure when you find its owner [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #dce6f2"]

1. Dwarves love rubies.
2. The Gnome wields a Greatsword.
3. The Half-orc rides an Asperi.
4. Diamonds are always on the right of the Emeralds.
5. Whomever stands on the Emerald rides a Pegasus.
6. Whomever wields a Flail wears Chainmail.
7. Whomever covets Agates wears Banded Mail.
8. Whomever stands in the center rides a Unicorn.
9. The Human stands on the first pedestal.
10. Whomever wears Studded Leather stands next to the longbow wielder.
11. The Dagger wielder stands beside the one that wears Banded Mail.
12. The one that wears Full Plate rides a Dragon.
13. The Elf wears Splintmail.
14. The Human stands beside the Sapphire.
15. Whomever wears Studded Leather stands beside the Hippogriff rider.

[/TD]

My plan is to have the players follow the clues and assemble the appropriate figures correctly, when they determine who wields the staff, a specture of that figure will leave their alcove grab the staff and give it to the party. If they completely assemble any of the figures in correctly, then the correct specter will fly out of its alcove and make a single attack on the closest player, the disappear into the wall behind them. Then use the periphery of the room to return to its alcove and await the next mistake.

I figure the party would recieve a perception check to notice details of the figure when it attacks.

Anyway, my question is, can anyone make sense of this riddle other than me? Any suggestions on how best to make this work?

 

[Gilladian]

I can't do it. I made a logic chart and filled it in, and I can't determine even one pairing for certain. I'm closest with the order of the gems, but not close enough. You need more clues or fewer categories.

 

[Satyrn]

I would suggest that you find one of these puzzles published in a book or magazine, then use it but swapping out their details for yours. That way, you'll know you have a solvable puzzle.


And if you solve the puzzle yourself before the conversion you'll know how difficult it actually is.

 

[Demonspell]

I would suggest that you find one of these puzzles published in a book or magazine, then use it but swapping out their details for yours. That way, you'll know you have a solvable puzzle.


And if you solve the puzzle yourself before the conversion you'll know how difficult it actually is.

That is almost exactly what I did with Einstein's Riddle. Unfortunately, I am able to solve Einstein's Riddle with a litte work so it makes complete sense to me.

Whether or not it makes sense to someone else is a different story.

 

[Satyrn]

When I see these puzzles published they've all been simpler than yours (Einstein's I guess), with only four people, and even then they can be tough enough.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I would agree on the suggestion of simplifying it. What’s obvious to the riddle is not always obvious to the riddle-solver.

I love riddles and puzzles because they challenge players to think, and can’t just be solved by rolling a skill check or hitting things. But one thing to consider is what happens if the PCs cannot solve the riddle? If the adventure stops dead in its tracks, that’s a problem.

 

[Nagol]

The problem with riddles in this form is either someone in the group understands how to iteratively solve them -- and does so over the course of minutes while others are looking on bored -- or the group is stumped and stuck until the players wander away.

Having the environment interactively respond to mistakes like you are planning helps alleviate both of these. If the penalty for being incorrect is light enough, it offers a decent shortcut to further iterations. I'd suggest the specter make one attack per mistake on the figure -- it gives the party a bit more information if they are reduced to guessing.

 

[religon]

As others, I feel the proposed logic problem is much too demanding... and I often game with science PhD's.

Two things to consider.

1) You are solving the riddle in your quiet office without distractions. Games tend to be much more difficult to focus during.
2) Traditional riddling was less about logic problems and more about memorization. Riddles and answers were memorized as a social activity. Deducing or guessing the answer was more the exception... suitable for a major plot twist in narrative... than the expectation.

Don't be embarrassed to give the players a simple play on words, pun or much simpler logic problem. Under game conditions, it will still challenge them. During the game is not the time to demonstrate to players your mastery of puzzles.

As gamers, we don't have fluency in the subtle nuance of wording within our game world. We have to rely on modern language and project it onto the game world. It's really not the same thing IMO. I love riddles, but they are tough to game.

 

[Umbran]

I've worked Einstein's riddle before, and I'm not sure your modification here is well-formed. You might want to double check and make sure that it actually only has one solution.

But, more generally - not everyone enjoys this kind of puzzle-challenge. Be sure your players like this sort of thing before offering it. Be sure that they *cooperate* well on such, as well, because otherwise what you're doing is handing the capstone to one player, and the rest sit and twiddle their thumbs waiting for the solution.

 

[Celebrim]

The big thing with riddles is that you don't want them to be roadblocks that stop play for too long.

What you don't want is to interrupt the session for an hour or more of time will your players work out the riddle. Even players that really like riddles won't necessarily enjoy that.

The best sorts of riddles are the sorts that present themselves long before a solution to them is needed, giving plenty of time over the course of multiple sessions for players to work out the riddle and/or collect additional clues before they get to the problem. If the riddle is acting as a chokepoint that prevents further progress, then it should not require more than 10 minutes to solve.

I do however like that whenever you get it wrong, you get a hint as to how to do it right. That makes perfect sense from a gaming perspective.

Unfortunately, it makes no sense from the perspective of someone designing this puzzle in the first place, since it would be equivalent to reducing the number of tumblers in your lock each time a thief fails to pick it.