D&D 5E Bard's Powers

[Arcshot]

Am I reading the rules correctly?
One of my players is a Bard (College of Lore), attaining 6th level. With Additional Magical Secrets, he learned Fireball, Aura of Vitality and Bestow Curse.

Suddenly he is a well-trained spellcaster throwing fireballs like a Wizard of equivalent level (with same spell slots), healing others every turn like a celebrity cleric, and bestow curse which can potentially cause a powerful enemy to waste its turn doing nothing.

If what i read is correct, some designers at WOTC must have really love the Bard much much.

 

[abirdcall]

All of those spells are competing with each other for his 3 spell slots/day.

Other spellcasters tend to have abilities which improve their spellcasting. Also keep in mind that as a Lore Bard he gave up extra attack at 6th level for those 2 spells which are competing with the 3rd level spells he would get anyway at that level.

Much more powerful is bardic inspiration which recharges on short rests. Cutting Words is stronger than Magical Secrets IMO as it gives you a consistent use of your reaction.

Maybe it would help to know what kind of pacing is typical in your campaign.

 

[Arcshot]

Maybe it would help to know what kind of pacing is typical in your campaign.

We play a session every 1.5 to 2.5 months. On average the PCs will level up each session of 8 hrs, if this helps.
The other PCs are a Druid and Ranger of level 6 as well. Comparing the powers at hand at the new level 6, the Bard seems to be rather, amazing.

 

[abirdcall]

We play a session every 1.5 to 2.5 months. On average the PCs will level up each session of 8 hrs, if this helps.
The other PCs are a Druid and Ranger of level 6 as well. Comparing the powers at hand at the new level 6, the Bard seems to be rather, amazing.

No, I mean, how many short rests and encounters per long rest. If there is a Land Druid in the party for example and they aren't doing any short rests, then they're going to be very under powered in comparison.

Lore Bard is certainly a strong class, I just think Cutting Words, Expertise, JoAT, and such are the key abilities.

Magical Secrets is certainly good, strong, and fun, but isn't much on its own.

Ranger level 6 isn't great, but they get their archetype feature at 7. Land Druids get an exploration ability and Moon Druids become balanced as other classes catch up (happens more at 5, but solidifies at 6 I think).

Something else to think about is that the Druid and Ranger probably have overlapping roles so they are sharing the spotlight with each other. During character creation I would have suggested a more diverse group to avoid that.

 

[Arcshot]

No, I mean, how many short rests and encounters per long rest. If there is a Land Druid in the party for example and they aren't doing any short rests, then they're going to be very under powered in comparison.

Lore Bard is certainly a strong class, I just think Cutting Words, Expertise, JoAT, and such are the key abilities.

Magical Secrets is certainly good, strong, and fun, but isn't much on its own.

Ranger level 6 isn't great, but they get their archetype feature at 7. Land Druids get an exploration ability and Moon Druids become balanced as other classes catch up (happens more at 5, but solidifies at 6 I think).

Something else to think about is that the Druid and Ranger probably have overlapping roles so they are sharing the spotlight with each other. During character creation I would have suggested a more diverse group to avoid that.

Rests vary. But I would say probably 2-3 medium or 1 hard encounter/s before long rest.

I agree Bard's BI and cutting words are very useful - Helped them a couple of time esp in tough encounters. The BI/cutting words definitely make a presence at the table.

I can see Bard's limitation from sharing his 2x 3rd-level spell slots in these spells. But we can also see the great versatility in the Bard playing not only different roles but at their high power level as well. It kind of takes away the uniqueness of other classes using the same spells.

Nevertheless I believe the players will agree the Bard's spells can definitely contribute greatly to the party's cause - This is how they play the game, by working as a team. It is just the nagging feeling about how the Bard takes away a share of other classes' uniqueness.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Was time that the bard becomes awesome.
Lore and valour bard are balanced very well. 2nd attack or fireball is a hard choice.
What you should remember is that wozards are a lot more versatile in spell selection as they can prepare each day what spells are needed. Clerics have nearly as much auto prepared spells as the bard has spells total.
The bard has the advantage of being a good healer and a good skill user.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Mercule]

The Bard reads as the most powerful class, IMO. That said, it's definitely within the range where I could imagine actual play being balanced. No one in my group actually wants to play the band geek, so I may never know. I'm still interested at some of the comments.

 

[DEFCON 1]

It is just the nagging feeling about how the Bard takes away a share of other classes' uniqueness.

Considering that probably 90% of all the spells in the book can be used by more than one class, I admit I am not seeing the same thing you are about class "uniqueness" being a result of their spell lists.

If the Wizard, Sorcerer, and Light Cleric can all cast fireball... why does a single bard who also can (because remember, only a very small number of bards out there have taken that spell with their special ability) all of a sudden change how "unique" the Wizard, Sorcerer, and Light Cleric are? Doesn't seem too likely to me personally. And the Ranger has hunter's mark as one of its primary spells. Does the fact that an Oath of Vengeance Paladin also gets that spell make the Ranger less unique? I've yet to see that being offered up as an issue. So why would one specific bard who took that spell all of a sudden have that effect?

The whole game has been designed such that almost anything can be built now multiple ways, so that nothing is truly "unique" much anymore. The concept of a "paladin" can't be all that unique when you could possibly build it as either a Fighter with the Acolyte background... a War Cleric with the Noble/Knight background... a Fighter/Cleric multiclass with a Noble/Knight background... or a Paladin itself. Likewise... your minstrel character could be a Bard... or could be a Wizard with the Entertainer background.

I think the only time you need to worry about "uniqueness" is not in the game as a whole... but rather in your specific party and what they can do. Especially if two characters do the same schtick as their primary focus in the group, and one does it SO much more effectively than the other. Then, and really only then, would the idea of wanting each character to be a little unique have a place. Which means in your case... when the other two characters in the group are a druid and a ranger... I have a hard time thinking that this bard is stepping on any toes because he can toss a fireball, use an aura, and can bestow a curse.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Am I reading the rules correctly?
One of my players is a Bard (College of Lore), attaining 6th level. With Additional Magical Secrets, he learned Fireball, Aura of Vitality and Bestow Curse.

Suddenly he is a well-trained spellcaster throwing fireballs like a Wizard of equivalent level (with same spell slots), healing others every turn like a celebrity cleric, and bestow curse which can potentially cause a powerful enemy to waste its turn doing nothing.

If what i read is correct, some designers at WOTC must have really love the Bard much much.

Sounds like you took three Magical Secrets instead of two. So no, you're not reading the rules correctly. Drop one of those spells until you hit level ten.