D&D 5E ogrillons

[pukunui]

Hi all,

Got a little bit of a dilemma here. I'm wanting to convert an old 3e Dungeon adventure called "Iriandel" for my 5e homebrew campaign. It's designed for 4th level PCs, and it involves a bunch of orcs and ogrillons led by some magic-using half-ogres. The adventure indicates that ogrillons are a cross between ogres and orcs, though it treats them as a separate, seemingly inferior species to the other half-ogres.

However, I note that in the 5e Monster Manual, it offers "ogrillon" as an alternate name for half-ogre, as though they are one and the same thing. I also note that half-ogres are Large in 5e, whereas this adventure presents them as Medium creatures.

So I'm left wondering what to do here. Should I make a distinction between the seemingly inferior ogrillons and their half-ogre masters, or should I just ignore it and make them all half-ogres? Or should I replace the ogrillons with orcs or maybe even orogs (although, technically, a 5e orog is tougher than a 5e half-ogre so maybe not)?

What do my fellow DMs think? What would you do in this situation?


Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Jonathan

 

[Unwise]

I would say that the Ogrillion/Orogs are orcs with some degree of ogre in their bloodline, not half-ogres. They are to half-ogres what Tiefling are to Cambions.

As for Orogs being tougher in the book, that is a bit odd. I would just tinker with that a bit.

 

[pukunui]

I would say that the Ogrillion/Orogs are orcs with some degree of ogre in their bloodline, not half-ogres. They are to half-ogres what Tiefling are to Cambions.

OK.

As for Orogs being tougher in the book, that is a bit odd. I would just tinker with that a bit.

I think it's partly because the default orog has plate armor, though they also have 12 more hit points than the default half-ogre.

 

[Hathorym]

I would say you go with the MM on page 238 and treat them as half-ogres. The reason being is that now humans, hobgoblins, bugbears, OR orcs can give birth to a strapping baby Ogrillon, and they just happen to be hardier stock this edition. Once you take on a few levels of spell casting on the Half-Ogres, they will undoubtedly be superior to the non-spellcasting Ogrillon.

Or, you can do it as society around the world has done, they may be so similar, but there's actual no physical evidence of difference, but because the other parent is a certain thing, they're just bad just because, whether the reason be some dude said it, it was written in some book, or the sky gods deigned it to be so. Really so many ways you can play out your version of Star Trek's "Let that be your Last Battlefield." i.e. the difference means nothing to the PCs, but it's everything in the world for the Half-Ogre/Ogrillions

Yeah, sorry for the tangent.

 

[Jester David]

IIRC it was a little like a mule/hilly situation where one orc/ogre pairing is an orog and another is an ogrillion. I'd have to check the Monster Manual to be sure.

For this adventure, I'd have medium sized and large-sized half-orcs to maintain the flavour, perhaps giving the medium-sized ones a slight hit dice hit.

 

[pukunui]

I would say you go with the MM on page 238 and treat them as half-ogres. The reason being is that now humans, hobgoblins, bugbears, OR orcs can give birth to a strapping baby Ogrillon, and they just happen to be hardier stock this edition. Once you take on a few levels of spell casting on the Half-Ogres, they will undoubtedly be superior to the non-spellcasting Ogrillon.

That's true. However, it's still tempting to either make them Medium size or just replace them with (perhaps hardier) orcs simply because I've got plenty of orc minis but only a few ogre minis (and there can be as many as a dozen ogrillons encountered at one time in the adventure).

To be honest, Medium size actually kinda makes more sense anyway, given that the MM says adult half-ogres only stand 8 feet tall. That's the same height as a goliath, and they're only Medium. (But then goliaths are a PC race, whereas half-ogres aren't.)

IIRC it was a little like a mule/hilly situation where one orc/ogre pairing is an orog and another is an ogrillion. I'd have to check the Monster Manual to be sure.

For this adventure, I'd have medium sized and large-sized half-orcs to maintain the flavour, perhaps giving the medium-sized ones a slight hit dice hit.

Luckily that's a pretty easy change to make this edition. If you take the half-ogre statblock and reduce the size to Medium, the only change you have to make is to drop the hit die size to a d8, which just reduces the average hit points by 4, so a Medium size half-ogre would be mechanically the same as a Large one, just with 26 hp instead of 30. That could work.

But if I'm going to do that, I might as well just use orcs instead.

 

[Jester David]

Luckily that's a pretty easy change to make this edition. If you take the half-ogre statblock and reduce the size to Medium, the only change you have to make is to drop the hit die size to a d8, which just reduces the average hit points by 4, so a Medium size half-ogre would be mechanically the same as a Large one, just with 26 hp instead of 30. That could work.

But if I'm going to do that, I might as well just use orcs instead.

I believe the weapon damage would also drop. From 2d8 to 1d8.

 

[pukunui]

I believe the weapon damage would also drop. From 2d8 to 1d8.

Oh right. Whoops! That's enough to bump it down to CR 1/2 as well. But that's OK. I think that works. That basically makes them bigger, tougher orcs (but without the Aggressive trait).

There's also a "giant ogre" in the adventure that can throw rocks and stuff. I'm thinking I'll take the hill giant stats and reduce it from Huge to Large to represent that guy.

 

[Ath'kethin]

Back in 2e an ogre-orc crossbreed was either an ogrillion or an orog depending on whether the ogre was the mother or the father, if memory serves. Half-ogres were specifically half-human ogre crossbreeds. Honestly, it's only as important as you want it to be. Replace the ogrillions with flumphs if you want - as long as the adventure has the atmosphere and challenge you're looking for, I doubt the paternity of the cannon fodder will be relevant.

 

[trentonjoe]

It sounds to me like you need 3 or 4 separate monsters: Orc, Ogrillion,1/2 Ogre, 1/2 Ogre MAgic user.

If the goal is to make combat different, I would make base monsters and then have a pool of slightly different abilities to add to each group. For example, say there are 24 orcs, each one has one of the following abilities:

has a shield (+2 AC, -1 damage)
knockdown (opponent must make a DEX save = to damage dealt or be knocked prone or each melee hit)
Spiked helmet (+1 AC and head but as a bonus action +5 to hit, 4 damage)
Spitter (bonus action to spit in opponents face, CON save 12 or blinded for one round) Recharge 6
etc....


If you want help send me a private message, I would be happy to help develop an orc clan together.