It also gave us the Divine Metamagic feat, which was one of the most horrifically broken things in all of Third Edition. I can never forgive it for that.
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Pauper
D&D 5E Escapist article on SCAG is Brutal.
It also gave us the Divine Metamagic feat, which was one of the most horrifically broken things in all of Third Edition. I can never forgive it for that.
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Pauper
Olaf the Stout
Hero
I agree with the reviewer in the sense that, until I read this review and other reviews on the SCAG, I wasn't actually sure what the book's aim was.
Was it a book with new crunch and character options? Was it a book detailing the Sword Coast? Was it meant to be a player-facing companion book to some Sword Coast adventures WotC was also releasing? Something else?
As it turns out, it probably has a bit of everything in there, which probably makes it useful for most people, but at the same time, leaving most people feeling like they didn't get their money's worth from the book because they were only interested in the crunchy stuff, or the FR stuff, etc.
It seems like the lack of focus may be this book's downfall.
Was it a book with new crunch and character options? Was it a book detailing the Sword Coast? Was it meant to be a player-facing companion book to some Sword Coast adventures WotC was also releasing? Something else?
As it turns out, it probably has a bit of everything in there, which probably makes it useful for most people, but at the same time, leaving most people feeling like they didn't get their money's worth from the book because they were only interested in the crunchy stuff, or the FR stuff, etc.
It seems like the lack of focus may be this book's downfall.
pukunui
Legend
I'm really not seeing this "lack of focus" people keep talking about. It's a player's guide. Pure and simple. It does what its predecessors - the Forgotten Realms Adventures, Player's Guide to Faerûn and Forgotten Realms Player's Guide - did: namely, provide players with a decent primer for the setting, an update on any changes for the new edition, and some new thematically-appropriate character options. If the SCAG is "unfocused", then so were all those other books with a mix of player-friendly fluff and crunch in them.
You keep saying that, but the truth is that it doesn't have the player content to back that up, if its a player's guide, its not successful as one, it needs more crunch for that.
That's what we are trying to tell you, is intended to be for both player's and dms, so the content is more of a mix of what you'd find in a player's guide, a campaign guide, and a regional book. Its not just meant as a player's guide.
It doesn't do what those books did, it would need 5 to 10 times the crunch to do so.
One bad feat, doesn't negate tons of quality content. Some of 3.5e best content is in that book.
I'll also add that the those player guides style books came out after the FRCG, so they didn't have to dupilcate as much information, with the SCAG there is NO FRCG, its expected to serve that function so it has alot of content that that would normally have gonen into a FRCG.
Player's Guides are are an addition to a campaign setting guide, there is no point in one without a seperate campaign guide, unless its both. You can do that successful, but it requires an size that big enough for a given setting, this doesn't have it.
This book might satisfy someone whose only interest in the realms is playing a few FR APs, and doing nothing else outside of them in the realms.
The 5e approach to the realms is to rail road people into playing the way WotC wants them to play, from the way AL is being run, to releasing SCAG which only has use to those running the APs, to no FRCG, ect...
If WotC keeps this up, 5e will be another failure, not because of mechanics, which are great, best ever, but because it starves.
Player's Guides are are an addition to a campaign setting guide, there is no point in one without a seperate campaign guide, unless its both. You can do that successful, but it requires an size that big enough for a given setting, this doesn't have it.
This book might satisfy someone whose only interest in the realms is playing a few FR APs, and doing nothing else outside of them in the realms.
The 5e approach to the realms is to rail road people into playing the way WotC wants them to play, from the way AL is being run, to releasing SCAG which only has use to those running the APs, to no FRCG, ect...
If WotC keeps this up, 5e will be another failure, not because of mechanics, which are great, best ever, but because it starves.
pukunui
Legend
Your opinion does not equal the truth. I would argue that all of the book's content is "player content". It doesn't need to have the same quantity of character options as its predecessors did in order for it to qualify as a player's guide.
Yes, it is. It says so right in the title, and WotC has said so on the product page. All player's guides come with a mix of fluff and crunch.
Shall we do a more detailed comparison?
Forgotten Realms Adventures
It clocks in just under 160 pages, and it has six chapters, covering such topics as "The Forgotten Realms, Post-Avatar", "Gods and Their Specialty Priests", "Cities of the Heartlands", and "Treasure."
Yes, it has more spells than the SCAG, but quite a few of those were already updated to 5e with the EEPC. FRA also has no new character options (just a few pages detailing how the existing classes have changed from 1e to 2e). It also only provides details for the lands of the Heartlands, rather than all of Faerûn. It also, interestingly enough, has 11 whole pages on gems and jewels.
If this was a 5e book, it would probably be called the Heartlands Adventurer's Guide.
Player's Guide to Faerûn
Clocks in at just under 200 pages. It has seven chapters, covering topics like "Races and Feats", "Prestige Classes", "Domains and Spells", "Magic Items", "Epic Levels", and a "Campaign Journal".
Many FR races have already been covered by the PHB and the EEPC, so that explains why there isn't much in the SCAG. And 5e handles feats differently, and it's good that the book isn't as chock-full of them as the PGtF is. There are no prestige classes in 5e yet, so that does away with that chapter. Some new magic items would've been nice, but they're probably saving those for the adventures and other DM-oriented products. We don't need epic level rules. The PGtF also describes the Realms' planes, but I'm not sure that's necessary this time, as it seems like WotC has made them realms within the existing planar structure outlined in the DMG (so Arvandor isn't its own plane, but a realm on the plane of Arborea).
Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
Has just over 160 pages and six chapters, covering "Races", "Classes", "Backgrounds", "Feats", "Rituals", and "Almanac".
The races chapter included rules for drow and genasi, which we've already got for 5e. Most of the chapter is taken up talking about how all the other playable races fit into the Realms, just like what the SCAG does.
The classes chapter includes one new class (swordmage), one new warlock subclass, the multi-class only spellscarred subclass, plus some FR-oriented paragon paths and epic destinies. Compare this with SCAG's 11 new subclass options.
The FRPG's backgrounds chapter is pretty comparable to the SCAG's.
Feats. Don't need 'em. Same with rituals really.
Then there's the Almanac, which is pretty comparable to the SCAG's first two chapters.
So how is the SCAG not like the other FR player's guides exactly?
Again, this is just your opinion. Just because the SCAG doesn't have as much stuff in it as its predecessors did doesn't mean that a) it isn't in the same class as those other books and b) it doesn't achieve its own stated goals. Also, those previous books are full of a lot of chaff. Cut that stuff out and you'll find that the quantity of player content in the SCAG really isn't that far out of proportion. I think part of it is just that it doesn't take up as much space.
We get it. You're disappointed with this book. You want a proper campaign setting book, not a player's guide. But can you please stop trying to say that the SCAG is something it's not? Just because it's not what you were expecting doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just not what you were expecting.
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Hussar
Legend
Why? Just because that's what we did in 3e? It's not a player's book unless it's adding several classes, spells, feats and whatnot?
Sorry, that's not how 5e works. And it's not like WotC hasn't been absolutely clear on this point. They are not adding (much) crunch to the game. The game is done. People really, really need to learn to accept that or move on. We're not getting sixteen class splats. We're not getting books of new spells.
5e is not 3e or 4e or Pathfinder. It's a new game and it's a rules light(er than other versions of D&D) game[/url].
So, considering everything WotC has been saying for the past year, or more, and the fact that we are seeing an extremely light release schedule in comparison to other editions, why would you expect new supplements to follow the same pattern as they did in the past?
I do expect that pattern to continue, just at a much slower pace. Class splat books were good sellers. New magic books are also good sellers. I expect we'll see all of these books. I expect to see them much later on and with more testing to extend the life of this edition.
Hussar
Legend
Define good seller though. Again WotC has been fairly clear here that they consider 100k copies or more to be the benchmark. It's unlikely that any non core DND book has sold in those kinds of numbers since the eighties.
So, sure we're going to get new class options. But I think the days of one class per book are very much behind us.
And let's not forget that the 5e phb has a lot more classes in it than ever before. Which makes the need for new class options less.
So, sure we're going to get new class options. But I think the days of one class per book are very much behind us.
And let's not forget that the 5e phb has a lot more classes in it than ever before. Which makes the need for new class options less.
